While APC leaders have been celebrating the defections into the party, spokesman and National Publicity Secretary of the PDP, Comrade Ini Ememobong, in this interview with Sunday Sun, said defections undermine democracy and should be criminalized. Ememobong, also bared his mind on the recent Supreme Court verdict on the powers of the President, as it relates to emergency rule.

The verdict of the Supreme Court on the emergency rule declared in Rivers State by President Bola Tinubu attracted criticism from the opposition. What does that judgement portend for Nigeria as a democracy and a federal state?

First, the full panel of the Supreme Court struck out the case. And in law, ordinarily, having struck out the case, it’s no longer a case. But they went on to speak to some of the issues. They struck out the case, on the basis that the petitioners had not exhibited a cause of action.

So, having said that there was no cause of action, they went further to make pronouncements about Section 305 of the 1999 Constitution, as amended. When you read the judgment, you see that, it is the Interpretation, the general interpretation of even the news media that broke it, even when you read it. While it says the President has the power or holds the power of the President to declare a state of emergency as enshrined in the constitution, but whether the President had the capacity to sack an elected governor, elected institutions, you find that it does not clearly state that.

It goes around to say well, under the emergency powers, you can take necessary actions. So, the ambiguity of that can now be interpreted. And our fear for democracy is that some day, a President can arise, who will think that the necessary action to restore peace, extraordinary measures to restore peace is the suspension of the judiciary, is the suspension of the federal legislature.

That is why we are calling that the National Assembly should immediately legislate on it; because the principle of law is that the express position of the law is the exclusion of what is not mentioned. The understanding of the law for us is that where the Constitution has mentioned how a person, who is elected can lose office, it did not mention a state of emergency. So, it’s not one of the ways. So, at that point, in fact, the use of the state of emergency to remove an elected officer should be a treasonable felony; because you are removing someone from power in a way, a manner not known to the Constitution.

I wish that an opportunity would avail itself for the Supreme Court to dwell deeply on these issues and establish the law. Because, while that emboldens a president or gives the impression that a president can declare a state of emergency, rightly so, and also remove, albeit temporarily from office an elected person and elected structures, it gives us the fear of abuse. And which is why legislators must immediately step in to fill the gap, to show the limit to which a president can act.

And I mean, if this is a federation, how can one who was elected, in the exercise of his power, have the capacity to remove another who was elected without recourse to the House of Assembly or the courts?

It portends great danger for democracy. That latitude, the latitude of the executive power is humongous and must be curtailed. Because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

There have been defections of some key opposition figures, including state governors, into the All-Progressives Congress (APC). On account of that, the leaders of the ruling party say that 2027 is a done deal for them.

It is again about interpretation. Yes, most of the people who are defecting are political office holders. If you do the analysis, you see they are governors, they are senators, they are this and that. But let’s even go to the claim that 2027 is a done deal; that is not good for democracy. The critical element of every election is called institutionalized uncertainty. Meaning that on the morning of election, everyone, yes, there could be projections, this person may win, this person may win. But not spoken with the assurance of finality.

So, if more than a year to the election, the ruling party is already saying that it is over, it shows that the element of institutionalized uncertainty has been removed; and therefore, an election just becomes an ordinary day. It’s just a process to wait for that day and get money. And which is what the desire of the ruling party is, which is totally and absolutely wrong. It is not good for democratic values. It is not good for anything at all. I mean, but look at it.

You are going to find implosion in the APC. Just wait and see. In every political party, there is a clash of interests. Now, they have amassed most of the interests into their party. They are going to have an implosion. We can assure them that it’s not yet over. They will find the shock of their life, because like Senator Ndume said, the officials are defecting, are the voters defecting? The voters will speak during the elections and you do know that if you constrict the space to the point where you don’t provide sufficient alternatives, know that the people have the capacity to go for another alternative.

Your national chairman said a few days back that the PDP is ready to sack the APC and start rebuilding the country. So, what gives you confidence you will defeat the APC?

When you enter Keke, use public transport, sit in places, talk to real Nigerians who are not part of the government, and you see where our confidence lies. They are the people who determine. You hear people tell you, please, can you take us back to 2015? You hear that a lot. I go on the streets, I wear my PDP clothes, and you see people want to give you free rides. You see people receive you at airports. You see people tell you, please, can you guys soldier on? You are the hope of this country.

I mean, so you are going to look at it, you’re going to see. Because when we do the analytics and see where APC took over from and what PDP did and where we are today, the difference is glaring. And the people do know that that difference is glaring. And they want a return of a party that has human sympathy. A return of a party that will not tax their intestines. You know, so those are the issues.

The PDP Is perceived to have been weakened by the defections of some of its governors and National Assembly members, as well as internal wrangling; Is the party in good form for the 2027 polls?

The first thing Is that it speaks to the character and political sagacity of the people who have left. Defection as a word carries an undertone of negativity. Defectors are not meant to be celebrated. They are people who should be ashamed if you look at the dictionary meaning of the word itself. But remember that when we started, we did not have senators. We didn’t have all those people. But as much as we are concerned about keeping the people whom we have produced, we are more concerned about keeping the people who produce them; which are the voters, which are the ordinary people. Which is why we are saying power to the people. We are more concerned about preserving, maintaining, and upholding the people.

So, if the people made have decided to behave in a way that is inconsistent with the wishes of their makers, then we are returning during elections to go back to tell the makers, please make new people and make sure that the people you make do not disappoint like the other ones. So, while it is a matter of concern, it is not a matter of finality. The truth is: the people who made these people who have left, are still with us and they have the capacity by God’s grace to make others.

You talked about infighting. Is there any party that doesn’t have infighting? There would always be infighting. In Osun, APC, didn’t you see infighting. In Delta, APC, you have not seen infighting?

But those are at the state levels…

The national is made up of the states. So, why couldn’t the APC hold their NEC meeting (as originally scheduled)? They scheduled and postponed. It is part of politics. It’s there everywhere; because you need to realign interests. There are interests that may be very stubborn and refuse to be realigned, like you saw in Osun. So, for us, we are ready for the elections. We are preparing for the elections, and the readiness is a function of continuous action, which would see us at that election.

Recently the National Assembly as part of the ongoing review of the constitution rejected a bill seeking to make defection a ground for impeachment of a governor or a president. How would you react to that?

Well, it shows that the democratic culture, which ordinarily, after a while should become normative; should become a norm is not growing. Now, the truth is that even if you make defection a ground for impeachment, who are the people to impeach? The House of Assembly. Who controls the House of Assembly?

Now, the constitution makes room that if you defect in the parliament, if you cross the aisle, that you will lose your seat. Many have crossed and the Speaker, Senate President, Speakers of House of Assembly have refused to declare their seats vacant. So, it is not about having the laws. It is also about activating the laws. Because despite written in clear language, clear simple language; they refused to declare the seats of the people, the decampees, vacant.

So, rather they celebrate it. They are excited every legislative day to announce that so so person has defected. Whereas it should be a matter of shame. Defection doesn’t help with democratic consolidation. And I think we should even get to a point where defection should be criminalized. It is obtaining by false pretence. If you stay in a political party and people vote for that political party and you take the mandate of that political party and cross to another political party, it should be viewed as a criminal act, because it is one of the things that has weakened our democracy.

So, imagine if people were not defecting and people had to sit back to rebuild their party. Imagine how strong parties would be.

Critics say your party encouraged defections while it was in power, that at a point, we had the PDP control 29 states, and not all the states were won at the polls. Some of them were ANPP governors and other governors who crossed over to the PDP.

Ask them what time that was. And ask them whether we should be retrogressing or progressing. The pride is to win at the elections; or if the court says you won at the elections. But to begin to coerce people, cajole people, lobby people, and bring people out, it causes dislocation, political dislocation.

Looking at the Electoral Act as it is today, does it give confidence for a free, fair, and credible election in 2027?

I take you back to what I said earlier. It is not just about the Act. It is about the actors. The Act must be activated by the actors. So, the question is, do we have the confidence in the actors? Do we have confidence in INEC? Do we have the confidence in security? Do we have the confidence in judges? Those are critical elements, because you may have the confidence in the people. But if the people come out to vote, and the processes of INEC are not as transparent as it ought to be, and security agencies do not play their role professionally, they become partisan, and judges, when the matter comes before them, do not give judgments, according to facts and evidence before them, that will align with reality; then you will see that it is not just the Act. You need now to begin to take a look at the actors. (The Sun)