In this interview, human rights activist and lawyer, Dele Farotimi, says replacing President Bola Tinubu with ex-President Goodluck Jonathan in the 2027 elections won’t solve Nigeria’s problems if the systemic rot in governance is not fixed.

Enjoy the excerpts:

Should former President Goodluck Jonathan come back? Some people think he may be the person to wrest power from the APC.

A thousand Goodluck Ebele Jonathans cannot solve the problems of Nigeria. If we do not address our structural problems and if we are incapable of telling ourselves the basic truth that we hold to ourselves, then nothing is going to change. They can recycle all these people as many times as they can. This was the same Goodluck Ebele Jonathan who was vilified and labeled. The press went into overdrive in this country, the pulpits and the mosques said Jonathan’s removal will solve the problems of Nigeria, but here we are – we’re going back into the past to dig up the past. That was how we dug up the one that just expired.

I don’t believe that our problems are going to be resolved because we changed personnel. The problems we have in Nigeria go beyond people. If you remove Bola Ahmed Tinubu from office today, if you do not touch that evil system that produces the kind of people who have ruined this country, all this talk about Jonathan is just more distraction from the political winning crafts.

We’re not looking for saviors; it’s about building systems, building a country. How do you rebrand the failure of 2015 into a saint and a saviour in 2025? After 10 years, we’ve gone full cycle, and we are back at a situation where we are saying that we are better off than we were in 2015. We should focus on building the system.

How do we ensure that we can produce people who care about Nigerians, people who would ensure that Nigerians are brought out of virtuous servitude in which we are all living? We should talk about real issues.

When you say our systems need a change. How is that supposed to happen? How do you fix broken systems?

You cannot depend on those who have ruined this country for salvation. You talk about the political class. The unfortunate reality is that Nigeria is not possessed of a political class. The political class suggests people who are resolved to meet the challenges of nationhood and development by consensus. There is no consensus among those you will call the elite in Nigeria because they are not elite. To be elite, you need to think beyond your lifetime.

In Nigeria, we don’t have a political class; we have a class that is completely focused on existential issues: how to steal, not about nation-building. So, if anything is going to change, it is the people who have to look in their mirrors for the saviour of Nigeria. It’s going to be that the victims of Nigeria have found sufficient basis to coalesce around the ideas of change.

If you’re looking at the political class, history should tell you that you won’t get anything positive out of them. It’s always about what is in it for them. They want to bring Goodluck Jonathan because it is the safe option for them. It is not about what is in it for the people. If we’re talking about change in 2027, what does it mean in education? What does it mean for security? What does it mean for agriculture? What does it mean in telecoms? What does it mean about the structure of the country? There were valid reasons 10 years ago to have him removed, but people did not ask themselves: “What does it mean to change this?” They focused on change, and they were sold a thought.

Now, we’re back here 10 years later. I would be more interested in knowing exactly what it is that Mr. Goodluck might bring this time around that is different from what he did before people called for his removal.

What are your thoughts on Peter Obi’s one-term presidency proposal?

I heard this one-time presidency thing from Peter Obi during the 2023 election cycle, which was the first time I heard him say this. So, it’s not as if he was saying something I hadn’t heard before, but we need to interrogate issues beyond declarations.

A man says he’s going to spend one term. One term to do what? I think we should ask that question. If I have a vision that can be contained within my lifetime, then it’s not a vision, it’s just an ambition. If it’s a vision, I will need my children’s children to complete that task. So, if a man says, “I’m going to run for one term.” I am more interested in asking questions about his plans. What would you do with the one term?

If I ever run for the presidency of Nigeria, I don’t require more than two years to do everything that I need to do. That’s the extent of my own belief that you don’t need a long time to achieve something lasting.

I’m not focused on how long he (Obi) said he wishes to serve. I’m more interested in what he intends to do within the time. Obasanjo had eight years; what did he do with them? Buhari had eight years; what did he do with it? He ruined Nigeria. Tinubu has had two years, he’s taking us back like 50 years. So, it’s not really about how much time the person spends; it’s a function of what they are doing with the time that they have.

The Nigerian Union of Pensioners is protesting unpaid entitlements up to 35 months of pension arrears. What are your thoughts on this?

Until suffering is democratized, it is rarely ever rejected. The ruiners of Nigeria have done a fantastic job of feathering their own nest by plucking the feathers of the Nigerian victims. Without anesthesia of any sort, they just keep plucking the feathers, and they’ve used them to feather their own nest.

In Ekiti State, some people have retired for over 15 years, and they received nothing, not a dime. These are talking about 30 months. What has happened to us is that we have been functionally enslaved by a system that is not designed to deliver any value to the people. It’s meant to create value and extract value from the people and deliver it to the rulers of Nigeria. So, it is very easy for the system to ensure that our president has the latest yacht in town. His jet, even when it doesn’t need replacement, gets replaced. Governors travel all over the world, spending money over what is spent on Universal Basic Primary Education. So, it’s not a system that works for the people. (Channels TV)