His name defined creativity on the football pitch and brought joy to African football, a true legend whose artistry with the ball inspired a generation and made the world fall in love with Nigerian football.

From the streets of Enugu to dazzling crowd on the world stage, Austin JJ Okocha remains the gold standard of skill, discipline and pure showmanship.

In an interview on The Exchange Podcast, hosted by Femi Soneye, the incredibly gifted football star takes guests into his journey, his world and the man behind the magic.

Everyone knows you as one of the most skillful footballers that Africa has produced, in fact, that the world has produced. And you’ve gone on to be very successful. If football had not worked out for you, what do you think you’ll be doing?

Well, I’m not sure, but I should be in the business world, I think.

You would have been doing business?

Yeah, because of, maybe the environment where I grew up.

So you would have been doing marketing and all those importing and exporting?

Whatever to make money, you know, as long as it’s legit.

Everyone knows you for your dazzling footwork on the pitch. But what’s the one thing you’re actually bad at, not on the football pitch now, just generally?

Oh I’m very bad at remembering people. I don’t know if it’s because I meet a lot of people, so if I’ve not been with you for a while, I struggle to remember. I meet a lot of people everyday, you know, so sometimes it’s difficult to remember people that you met only once, especially when you’ve not had any conversation or whatever with them. So yeah, I’m very bad at that.

At what point in your career did you realise that you can actually entertain people while playing football?

Well, I mean you know, it was later that I realised that okay, I was entertaining people. I saw it as my identity, because I believe that we all need an identity,

Especially when I travelled abroad. I realised that I’m different, and I had to bring something new to the table. I had to add value to what they’ve got already. European football is all about discipline, tactics, you know. But if you’re gifted naturally and you bring that on board, you will be accepted, especially when you’re doing it for the team. So I realised that I could do a bit more than my friends do on the pitch when we were playing on the street. Because we were free, we were just trying all sorts, you know, and I realised that it doesn’t take time for me to develop new skills. So I was trying all sorts. So when I moved to Europe, I realised that these people, they never played on the streets, they’ve all only played organised football. So if you can bring that your natural ability, they will see you in a different way. But you have to find a balance. You have to know where and how to do it because you have to learn. Because sometimes when you love what you’re doing so much you get carried away. I do get carried away sometimes.

Has there been a time when you actually dribbled a particular player and then you felt pity for the guy?

No, no, no. I never felt pity for anybody because I mean, I was ‘selling my market.’

When you moved to Europe at that young age, what did you find difficult to adjust to?

The weather was the first. Then the language. The weather was too cold. My first winter was like hell because I never knew it would get that cold. Nobody prepared me for it.

You’ve played in some amazing and beautiful cities all across the globe, from France, Turkey, England to Germany. Which of these countries shaped you the most both as a player and as a person?

Germany. Germany because that was my first stop and I went there when I was 17. I turned 18 there. So I always say that I went to Germany as a boy, left as a man, you know. Because the discipline that they taught me in Germany, the professionalism that they taught me in Germany, I didn’t see it anywhere else and that was what helped me during my career.

Tell me three cities and clubs that you wish you had played for?

You want to get me in trouble. I missed only one, I would say. I would have loved to play for Barcelona. Paris Saint Germain, I achieved. Eintracht Frankfurt I achieved. But Barcelona I missed that.

In your career, which was the toughest team you’ve ever come face-to-face with?

Well, every game is different, you know. And in football, you have good days and bad days. But there are teams that on paper they motivate you, and then there are teams that you know that they play ugly, so those are like the games that you’re not looking forward to playing. And I can say then in the Premier League, a team like Stoke, you know, they play ugly so it’s always difficult to play against a team like that or Blackburn, for example because it was a Derby match, so it used to be tough.

A lot of Nigerians believe that Nigerian football has declined in recent years. From your own perspective, what do you think is the problem with Nigerian football? Where did we get it wrong?

Well I think it’s lack of consistency. In my opinion, I think Nigerian football started declining after Nation’s Cup 2002.

What happened then?

The team was disbanded, and then some of us were called back. I think, in my opinion, I know some people might not be happy with me but the squad that we went to the World Cup with in 2002 was maybe the weakest that I played with.

At the previous World Cup, we made it out of our group, maybe we even topped the group. But we didn’t even come out of our group in that 2002. So that transition did not really happen like it used to. Before then, we had players that had played in the national team for years and then retire and then others took over from them. But that transition didn’t happen. They disbanded the team and then almost 70 per cent of the team left. So I think from that time onwards…

Of course, don’t get me wrong, we’ve had great players over the years. We’ve had players that have won tournaments also for Nigeria, but that consistency is lacking. We don’t win games with conviction anymore. We made our home our fortress. But now, it’s like we’re weak at home.

So, in my opinion, we’ve lost that fear, that fear factor. Before, people, nations used to be scared to play Nigeria. Now teams are looking forward to playing Nigeria.

Looking at the Super Eagles now, what do you think we are missing to get it right? What can we do to get back to that level?

Putting a proper structure in place and letting that structure work. We’ve always believed in quick fix. In football there’s no quick fix, you know. It’s a team, that’s why it’s a team game, and you need time to build a team. Nigeria can never lack talent because of our population. Yes, we will always produce good players. We have a fantastic squad now, but why are we not consistent enough? Why are we not winning back-to-back games? So, I don’t think it’s just the players, you know. It might be other things off the pitch because you have to prepare off the pitch before you get on the pitch.

Talking about other issues beyond the pitch, there have been conversations linking your name to the NFF. Are we going to see JJ Okocha vie for the head of the Nigerian Football Federation?

Maybe because there’s nobody else left. I’m enjoying my private life, I’m enjoying my freedom. I’m a junkie when it comes to football I’m a big fan.

Forget about me playing for Nigeria, I’m one of Nigeria’s biggest fans. That was part of the reasons I moved back home, to show that I’m from a good place too.

Forget about the image that they portray out there sometimes. So I mean, if it gets to the level that we have to come out and say that enough is enough, we’ve seen enough, why not? You never know what would happen

Yes I’m a football person. My focus will be us getting results. It’s a result business you know and people forget that if the team is not winning, if the team is not doing well, then you’re not doing well.

Do you think the Super Eagles will qualify for the World Cup?

I’m the worst person to be asked this question because I can never say anything against the national team and once there is a glimpse of hope, of course I will believe that. And that’s the beauty of football. Sometimes you have to do it the hard way. Sometimes it might work, sometimes it might not. But once there is hope, I mean, yeah, I’ll still trust this team. I still believe that it’s possible.

We put ourselves in this situation, and we are the only ones that will bring ourselves out of it. So, they know.

The thing is that the players are the ones that feel it the most. It’s their job. They don’t have any other job at the moment, so they will all love to play in the World Cup and they know how disappointing our people will be if they don’t make it. So I think I believe. Even from their last outing, you can see the desire to get it right, the desire to correct their mistakes you know. So they’ve given us hope

If you look at football generally today – the money, fame and everything – do you think players still play for passion?

Of course. I mean if you don’t love what you’re doing to survive or for a living, you shouldn’t be doing it, even though it is pure business now. It’s serious business now and players are under a lot of pressure now to produce. But I believe they still love the game because it’s the game that made them, it’s the game that even brought up this conversation and all that. So I have no doubt that they love it. But yeah it’s a game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But our problem is that in this Nigeria, we are all coaches, and our expectations are beyond the coaches. So It’s not easy. We can’t get used to losing a match. And I understand that because it’s one of the things that unify us, one of the things that bring us together.

Austin Jay-Jay Okocha (middle), Femi Soneye, host of The Exchange Podcast (right), and Joycelyn Ella Keche Adah, co-host, exchnaging views after Okocha’a interview session.

You admitted that your time as the chairman of the Delta State Football Association was a woeful failure, and then you stepped away. You said that the structure will not allow people like you us to succeed. What were the biggest structural challenges you had in that role that prompted you to use such words?

It’s becausee I had a boss, if I may put it that way, because whether you like it or not, government is always your landlord. So I had somebody that was not willing to work with me, and I was a bit uncomfortable. He didn’t understand that I was just there to help develop the game in Delta. I was using my money to run the FA. I did it for two years. I ran the FA Cup with my money for two years. No funding. And I didn’t have the structure or whatever to attract investors from the corporate world.

So I said, you know what, there’s no need to… I’m not that kind of person that would just stay in a place that I’m not comfortable with, just to be a chairman or a president if I’m not adding value. So I decided to leave it for them.

You’ve inspired a whole lot of generations, you know. I mean, it’s mind blowing. Who inspired you the most while growing up?

Well I will say, my senior brother, you know, even though as a kid, it was all about Pele, Pele, Pele. But I grew up from a footballing family, you know.

Even our most senior brother, he’s the main Jay Jay. So I got my inspiration from my brothers.

Many say your talent was ahead of your time. Do you feel you got the recognition you truly deserved both in Nigeria and globally?

Recognition, yes. I mean people still recognise me, people still thank God that during our time we managed to get some clips so people still go back and watch my clips. But I can say that I didn’t get the reward that I think I deserve, you know.

When you say reward, in what terms?

In terms of, I didn’t win CAF African Footballer of the year, but I won the BBC African Player of the year back to back. But CAF never gave me, and I think I might be the only person that I’ve not won both at the same time cause you can’t be good enough for one and not good enough for the other.

You once captained the Super Eagles. What was the hardest decision you ever had to make both on the pitch and out of pitch while you were playing for the Super Eagles?

That’s a tough question. I think it was us not qualifying for 2006 World Cup, and I felt like we threw it away. And the reason being that the decision that was made off the pitch cost us the ticket.

What decision was that?

The match was played in Cannes, and we had never played in Cannes before.

All of us are foreign-based players. The heat, the weather… we were all like foreigners.

Looking back now, is there one match, one goal or one moment that truly

Defines your career for you?

Of course! It’s the goal I scored there in Germany for Eintracht Frankfurt in 1993

The one against Oliver Khan?

Yeah. That was the goal that made me popular in Europe

So, if your story were to be put in a movie, what will the title be? And who will you suggest to play you?

Who will I suggest to play me in the movie? I like Denzel Washington. The title, I would say ‘An unknown genius.’

But you’re a known genius, a known legend. What will you advise the current NFF to do to help in improving the Nigerian football as it is today? Is there anything you want to tell them?

What I what I can advise is that I think they need to get former players involved. They need to work with former players because some of us still have influence on the current players, and I think there’s always a role for everyone to play. And the reason I’m saying this is because I was with the team during the last Nation’s Cup, and I could see on the players’ faces, when I was talking to them, you know, respect. Somebody that has been there, has done it talking to me, yeah and somebody that is making sense, yeah, you know. Someone that knows what they are going through, that can connect with them. And that started after we drew our first game, and we were meant to play the host, and we won that game.

And after that they were like oh can you come again, you know, so if you’ve never been there, if you’ve never done it before, if you’ve never been in the dressing room, that connection can never be there. Because you cannot really understand how they feel, and maybe what to tell them at the right moment or whatever, because you’re not talking to them as a fan, not talking to them as a president or whatever. You’re talking to them as a teammate, as a colleague, as somebody that has been there, done it and somebody that they respect.

On a final note, what is that one victory that you’ve experienced in a football match that till today lingers and bring back memories?

It’s very easy. It’s the semi final 1996 Olympics game against Brazil. That was a very iconic moment, very iconic match. Yes. (Sunday Sun)