Engineer Buba Galadima is a chieftain of the New Nigeria People’s Party (NNPP) led by the former governor of Kano State, Senator Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso. In this interview with General Editor, Politics, Taiwo Adisa, he declares that despite amassing 29 governors, the ruling APC is not guaranteed victory in the 2027 polls. He also declares that the party’s implosion is very near, adding that the governor of Kano State, Kabir Yusuf would be made to surrender the mandate given to him by the Kano people. Excerpts:

Your party, the NNPP, has been in the news for the wrong reasons. You lost the only governor you produced in Kano State, and we were hearing that the leader of Kwankwasiyya, Senator Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso, was on the verge of joining the ruling party. What is really happening?

First, I know somebody carried our mandate to some group of people. That›s all I can say. Yeah. We are not happy. Definitely, we shouldn›t be happy because we made sacrifices.

Is your party taking him to court?

No such decision yet. We have not sat until the national chairman comes. We will formulate our next line of action.

There was this ambivalence about KwanKwaso before the governor eventually left for APC. A meeting was planned between Kwakwanso and the president. Why was that meeting not held again? Did his supporters object to that meeting?

Did anybody tell you he was asked to organise that meeting?

There was a wide report in the media.

You know the media. You are one of them, and you are now saying something that does not exist. So, you can rely on the media.

Yes, there were media reports that a meeting would be held between the President and Kwankwaso. So, why didn’t it happen? That’s what we didn’t know.

Because I didn’t know about it. It could be that the media was misled. It’s possible. Who misled you? It’s difficult to know.

We are curious to know why the meeting did not take place.

To my knowledge, there wasn’t anything like that. It has never been on the table. Of course, the governor met Tinubu, we all know, and they discussed defection. I don’t think Kwankwanso is planning to defect to any party. So, why should the president do it? In fact, why does the president need him? It’s the question nobody was able to tell me.

What is known to us in the media is that the president would need him because of the feat he performed in 2023. In 2023, he was able to win the governorship of Kano. He was able to win the presidential election in Kano. That’s a major key hub of the electoral campaign in Nigeria. So, many believe that if the president wants to win big in the North-West, he will need Kano. So, possibly that’s why he’s looking for him. Do you believe so?

But I thought the president said he won the election in 2023. Yes. Why does he really need anybody there if he won the election?

Well, politics is never a stagnant pool. Things keep moving. Maybe he is seeing something in Kwankwaso?

And he has about 30 governors. He’s trying to make it 36. Why does he need another person?

You are all politicians, so you know.

No, I don’t know. Really, I don’t know. If I were him, I would know. Because this shows that he didn’t win the election. How desperate he is. Yes.

He was declared by INEC and that’s authoritative…

Well, now he has 30 governors. He doesn’t need anybody. I don’t know the number of governors. He can have 36. I don’t care. Because, as far as I’m concerned, if there is a free and fair election, he cannot win even if he has all the governors.

Are you sure?

Let him try now. I dare him. And he can’t kill the opposition. He’s just wasting his time. But that’s what he’s trying to do, isn’t it? Don’t you believe it?

I know that opposition is vital in a democracy, and I know that in the natural course of life, there are two sides to the coin. And there will always be two sides to a sword. So, you can’t say that the other side should not exist, I think…

Tell me one governor who commands the respect of his people to the extent that, if there is an adult suffrage election, he will win.

It’s difficult to say. It’s difficult to say until the votes are cast

If I tell you that the APC can implode, will you agree? It is possible because ambitions will come up. So, it’s not an advantage to have everybody in the APC now. Even in the interest of Tinubu. But maybe he doesn’t see it that way.

I believe he thinks that if all the governors are with him, the APC will be able to control what they do.

Do the governors control their states now? You have seen how in Zamfara, in Sokoto, in Kebbi, in Niger, in Jigawa, in Katsina, and even in Kano itself, the incumbents were defeated. Do you think that if they are allowed to vote in any of these states, people will vote for Tinubu 100 per cent? No. Nobody can win 100 per cent votes, anyway. And this is where the bandits have bases. And he doesn’t want to fight them.

You say he doesn’t want to fight the bandits? But he has signed an agreement with America recently. That was why they struck in Sokoto. We knew that they struck somewhere in Sokoto. Part of the equipment they used fell in different parts of the country, Kwara and Sokoto.

He knows better. The President knows better than me. I think if I were him, I would allow nature to play its part. But if you compress everybody and they bloat, it will be very difficult to control. But he is the president, he is the candidate, he is the one who has the money to deploy. But we should not forget the reason he became the president.

So, what’s the fate of your party now that you have lost the only governor?

Did we have a governor before? Did we have a governor? Before him, we didn’t have one. Did we have a councillor? No. Did we have a House of Assembly member? No. Rep member? No. Senate? No. And we worked and got a governor from scratch. The only problem is that we have to start all over again. That could be our setback. If not, we are used to it now. This governor, when he was there, did he do anything for anybody? He was helping Ganduje and his people. He paid former Ganduje’s Councillors N15.8 billion as severance allowance. How much did he give the Kwankwansiyya people who fought and sacrificed their lives for him to win?

So, you are saying that he has been working for APC for a long time?

That’s our thinking. So, he’s just making a homecoming. There was no councillor. There was nobody. And then we rose from that scratch to win a governorship seat, a Senate seat. So the party is not worried.

You should be worried that all the elected officials have now abandoned the party and left for the APC.

We are not worried. Besides, we are not concerned. The governor has helped us tremendously by going. But you see, in a civilised society, the constitution allows him to go. When there is a division in the party, which we know and acknowledge. But the constitution did not say that he can also carry the mandate of the party. So, we are asking him, as he is going, he should drop our mandate because when Kano people were voting, there was no picture of Abba Kabiru on the ballot, and there was none of his name on the ballot. It was the NNPP logo. So, that mandate belonged to NNPP. And we just sent him an assignment to work for us. Something he detests. Because he believes, like Mussolini, that he is the state. So, you see the wahala. What we are asking is that he should drop our mandate and go. He’s free to go. We can’t stop him, but he can’t go with our mandate.

So, does that mean your party will be ready tackle him in court?

When we so decide.

Is your party ready for an alliance with other parties ahead of 2027, because you have remained a one-state party all along?

There is nothing wrong with staying in a political party that doesn’t have anything. Because it depends on what your ideals are. You are the only people who are having a semblance of ideological leaning in all the parties. So, we don’t want to be polluted. However, we can comfortably align with any political party that agrees to align with us and form a formidable team so that if God allows us to win, we will jointly run the country based on certain indices and protocol. Unless we don’t have such a party. If we have, it is not foolish for us to team up in an alliance and work together.

Do you see Kwakwanso/Obi ticket materialising in 2027?

People have talked about it. They have also spoken about Jonathan/KwanKwaso ticket. So, if you are observant, there is no single politician in the country that commands Kwankwaso’s followership, individually. Yes. It is an organic structure.

Not even the Obidients?

Not even Obidients. I don’t know. When did Obi start? It wasn’t a structured organisation. It was something that was built out of emotion. They brought in the issue of religion, they brought in the issue of tribe, they brought in the issue of this and that, and that and put people together. Are they still there?

I think they are still there with the news out there.

It would be good for us if they were still there with all the crowd and with all the numbers. You are not a politician. If you are a politician, you can never be sure. Politics is a fair-weather game. It can evaporate. Yes. And you can make one statement that can scatter the whole place, but our own support is organic. Whether you like Kwankwaso or not, you must give it to him. No politician can sit in Abuja and say, I need one million people tomorrow and they will come without giving them a penny. Can Obi do that? Can Tinubu even do that without giving a penny? It is not possible. So, we cannot rule out the possibility of an alliance. If people believe in some of the things we want to do, like train people in skills, and educate the sons of Mr. Nobody to become somebody. And if the people agree that we can throw away those people doing the tax reform. If people believe that on the day of inauguration, the president will declare that those who compromised the tax reform bill must face a penalty, and catch all those who had a hand in it. If people believe that we should deploy all the resources of government to secure the country from banditry and kidnapping, Boko Haram and IPOB, they have a friend in us. But we are not doing politics of money, or politics of personality, or politics of position, or politics of sharing. All we need is service to the people, and if we see such a person, that person is a good co-traveller.

Some APC people who will say that your presidential candidate in 2023 doesn’t like President Tinubu. That the president has been wooing him for so long. Is there a kind of enmity between them?

I don’t understand. Who is Tinubu? Who do you really think Tinubu is? He’s a politician. Is Kwankwanso not one? Yes. Why can’t he join Kwankwaso?

Well, he is the president of the country right now, and he has a massive party far bigger than that of Kwankwaso, so it is believed that it’s Kwankwaso who can team up…

But is it permanent? Can’t Nigerians change? Nigerians can. It is not permanent. Nothing is permanent. So, why can’t he support Kwankwaso? After all, Kwankwaso is more educated than him and has more energy than him.

Now, Tinubu is the president. How does he join Kwankwaso, who has a smaller platform?

President is only one among equals in Nigeria. How do you people make somebody God-like this? That’s what you are doing. He cannot be God. Only God is God. That’s why it gets to their head when they are in public office. They believe they are above everybody. Not even God’s anointed, that they anointed themselves, because they use the funds to get to where they are. For you to say that, why doesn’t Kwankwanso like the president? Do you like me more than you like yourself? Everybody must first of all like himself. Kwankwanso wants to be president. Why should he support another person to be president? We want him to be president of Nigeria because he has what it takes to run a country, he has performed well in public office, and he has assisted people. That’s our belief.

You have said that you are not ruling out an alliance. That means, definitely, the party must come to talk with either the ADC or the APC.

The parties are already talking. They are talking. That’s an open secret. APC knows that PDP is talking to ADC, ADC is talking to NNPP, and NNPP is talking to all of them. And as individuals, they talk, and there is nothing wrong. That’s politics. If they can get an aggregate platform to say that this is what we intend to do for Nigeria and all of us subscribe to that and write an MOU, why can’t they come together and produce one person? I have not seen any fault in that.

But why is your party not considering the APC, the party in government? They claim that they have done a lot for the economy. They are doing tax reforms. They have removed the fuel subsidy, and there is no corruption in the sector again. And that they are diversifying the economy.

Show me the evidence of what you are saying first before I answer you. They removed the fuel subsidy, and the fuel price went up. My party is opposing all the things you mentioned. Where is the evidence? You see, my party is opposing all these reforms Tinubu brought. Yes. And I want to tell you that that’s why our candidate is not joining them. So, does it mean that if you don’t join Tinubu, you don’t like Nigeria? On a more serious note, what has the reform brought to you as an individual? We are paying more for fuel. Do you like to pay more for fuel? Well, it was imposed on us. So, why do you expect us to like it because it is Tinubu?

Well, the government has said that the policy will only bring temporary pain.

How temporary is temporary? Two and a half years out of four. We are still suffering. And you tell me it is temporary. Until I die and they bury me? God forbid. Has Tinubu not imported grains to destroy agriculture, which is the mainstay of the Nigerian economy? Is he helping the nation? Do you believe there is equity for you to buy fertilizer at 70,000 Naira per bag, and then when you produce wheat, millet, maize, beans, and you sell for less than 30,000, you believe that Tinubu is doing very well, in that respect? What percentage of farmers are in Nigeria? Out of the population of 220 million. How many do you think are relying on farming? We have subsistence farming all over. Like 60 per cent of Nigerians. So, if 60 per cent of Nigeria does not like you, can you win an election? I doubt. Do you need a mallam or a pastor or an Okija shrine priest to tell you that if 60 per cent of Nigerians don’t like you, you can win an election? Or are you one of those who believe, like the governors, that Tinubu will write results for them and declare them winners? Tinubu is Kwankwaso’s friend, even though he stabbed him from the back by taking his governor.

Are they friends?

Yes. They are classmates of the class of 1999.

So, what went wrong?

Individuals are different, and that is why I am supporting Kwankwaso, not Tinubu, because He does not believe in what I believe in, and vice versa.

In 2027, do you believe that your party and whatever coalition you want to put together can replace Tinubu in the Villa?

Before 9 am on election day, if there is truly a free and fair election in Nigeria, we would have removed Tinubu. This is because he does not have anybody’s support. His main support is just his money and the instrument of government and he knows that. That’s why he has been coercing every governor to his side. But he can’t afford to do a free and fair election. If he wins, don’t think he won. He manipulated.

We discovered that the opposition has not been vigilant as regards the Electoral Act Amendment bill and that if the opposition is vigilant, the bill would not have been delayed till now in the National Assembly, especially because the bill is supposed to cure the complaints about BVAS and electronic transmission of results.

If you are vigilant, what would you do? The media needs to be vigilant, too.

We are vigilant, and that was why we published a story to sensitise the stakeholders.

Even if you shout to God, nothing will happen to Tinubu. Does Tinubu care about the law when he manipulated the Tax law and put things that are not there, and gave the authorities in France carry out our money? There is a claim that he said he bought everybody. But let me tell you this. You can quit me. PDP will win the next election in Nigeria.

No, the PDP that does not exist as we speak?

Go and write it down that I say the PDP will win the next presidential election because it can bounce back with the right candidate.

But the factions are locked down in the courts. How would they come alive?

Is Tinubu God? Write this down again – we will not allow the Judiciary or any arm of the government to be used against the people. We used to see occasions where they give someone’s a victory to another person. This time around, that would not happen. They may try and attempt it, but they cannot. Tinubu would lose, and he would go. Once he loses, he must go.

It is strange to hear that you believe that the PDP will win the next election.

You know I don’t speak frivolously. PDP will form the next government. The court can do nothing. Let’s see what will happen.

Remember, the PDP doesn’t have an executive committee right now because none has been recognised by INEC?

It will be recognised by the court. Let us wait and see whether INEC will conduct the election without the PDP. People think it is going to be business as usual where elections will be manipulated.

So, what gives you the confidence that the PDP can come back from this crisis, the party is factionalised into Turaki and Anyanwu fronts?

Those who are holding the PDP down cannot continue to weaken the party; they cannot succeed all the time. Anyanwu cannot eat his cake and have it. The judgment of the court last week said he cannot continue to parade himself.

So, do you see the ADC flying high?

It depends on who the candidate is. I said PDP will win because I have an idea of who is likely going to be its candidate, and the nation will fall on itself and support that person.

What if the party is kept in court till eternity?

They cannot. I say they cannot. I am the one telling you this. You know, I regard Tinubu as a human being and very lively, but some Nigerians think he is unbeatable. You will see what will happen.

Now, if the PDP comes out of its travails and the ADC also has a candidate, will the opposition not run into the same situation that happened in 2023, where three candidates, two from the opposition, slugged it out?

PDP is also pushing but it depends on who the candidate is. I am saying this because I have an idea of who will be the PDP candidate. Our problem is a level playing ground. Our problem is not division but a level playing ground. Once there is a level playing ground, you take away the APC because they are non-existent in the minds of ordinary people. So, the contest will be between NNPP, ADC and PDP.

What if each of the parties you mentioned has a strong candidate?

It does not matter. You and I know who is better.

In 2023, the two opposition candidates, Atiku and Obi, put together over 13 million votes. This showed that the opposition was divided, as the APC won by a little over 8 million votes. So if the opposition is divided again, don’t you sense danger?

I repeat, it depends on the candidate.

Despite having only one governor in the entire South?

Yes, governors are not needed. The NNPP didn’t have a governor in 2023. (Nigerian Tribune)