Dele Momodu is a journalist and politician.

He was one of the few Nigerians who fought the military for the country to return to democratic rule using NADECO.

In this interview with Sunday Sun, he looked at governance in Nigeria today, the state of the nation, political economy, the President Bola Tinubu?s policies and outcomes, as well as the country?s trajectory.

How would you describe the state of the nation? Insecurity is taking a toll on Nigeria, to the extent that the President, on his return from France, gave marching orders to Security Chiefs and the NSA that enough is enough.

How do you look at that order?

I don?t see anything new in that. From the time we had the crisis, let?s say, from Jonathan to Buhari to, now, under Tinubu, not much has changed. It was embarrassing during Buhari?s time because Buhari was a retired Major General. We thought, if anyone could handle insecurity, he would be able to handle it better. Also, because there was also the campaign that the bulk of the crisis came from Fulani herdsmen and he was a Fulani man, we expected that he would be able to persuade his friends, his family members, and everybody, at least cajole them and let his government have peace.

Unfortunately, we didn?t enjoy that peace. So, for me, now with Tinubu coming, I think it?s getting worse. It?s escalating, I think, in the last couple of months, and it doesn?t seem that the government has been able to get a hang of it. So, we can only pray. You know, when everything else has failed, then you resort to prayer. We can only pray that some miracle will happen. But I?m not seeing that miracle yet.

Going by the campaign promises made by President Bola Tinubu prior to the 2023 election, do you think that he has lived up to expectations?

Oh, definitely not. The campaign promises were very, very huge. But the delivery, very little. I think the biggest mistake he made was creating chaos right from the very first day of his tenure. I mean, you don?t come (and do that) on day one. It should be a day for celebration and a day for sober reflection. But that very day, I don?t know what got into him, he just declared a summary cancellation of fuel subsidy without first checking the details of how it was operated before he got to power. When you get power, it?s like a doctor. You go to a doctor with an ailment and he?s asking, what are the symptoms, and he (Tinubu) acted without first of all checking the symptoms and confirming what those symptoms could have meant to the patient. You don?t give the patient an injection and he goes straight into a coma. That has been the case of Nigeria?s economic woes. The moment you kill the economy from day one, it is difficult for you to revive it. And that is why we have been struggling.

Only a miracle can revive our economy.

What would you say about the President?s declaration of state of emergency in Rivers State, seeing that you have a relationship with Tinubu since those days of NADECO, when you were always together?

I haven?t requested access to Asiwaju because I have no intention of going there, lest some busybodies would say Dele has gone there to beg and to ask for appointments. Because, in Nigeria, people now believe that life begins and ends with appointments. I?m not interested in any appointment and I?m saying it with an emphatic No. I?ve kept very busy. The process of making money, for me, might be slower, but I prefer it because I love my freedom. I still love Asiwaju like I used to like him, but I love Nigeria more. So, for me, in fact, this interview, if you ask me for something, maybe like a headline, I will tell you ?I love Asiwaju, but I love Nigeria more.? That?s all. I always think of my country above friendship. I have nothing personal against Asiwaju. When people are abusing him and saying personal things about him, I?m sure you will not find me saying those things because of the regard I have for him. And I always remember his contributions to pro-democracy activities. He did, I believe, he did well. He played his part, but, unfortunately, he has abandoned those ideals. And in abandoning those ideals I too have abandoned him to his newfound dictatorial tendencies.

What really is happening to your party, PDP? It appears everyone wants to leave the party. You saw what happened in Delta State last week. Or are you also on your way to APC?

Impossible! I would rather retire. Leave me out of the APC matter. As for PDP, there?s nothing happening to PDP that has not happened in the past. Once upon a time, Tinubu started from AD, they formed AC, they formed CAN, and later they formed APC. So it is their time to ?eign. Everything in life has its ups and downs. But there?s nothing happening to the PDP that is peculiar to it. In fact, APC has more problems than PDP. They were in government, their President just left power two years ago. Yet they are abusing and attacking Buhari. If they didn?t have problems, they wouldn?t be abusing their own President. So, they are pretending because there is a lot of largesse to distribute. The ambassadors, they are waiting for the ambassadorial list. They are waiting for all kinds of postings to parastatals, there is food for them. That?s why it seems that everything is intact. You wait till next year, when some people suddenly realize that it?s over, there is no food for them in APC. You will see how they will start moving in droves to the available parties. So, PDP, Labour Party, NNPP, and all of them are suffering deliberate attacks from the APC government. They are the ones orchestrating all these things. Everybody knows that in the Tinubu government, if they go for an election, a free and fair election, they can?t win . They know it because they have not been able to deliver on their promises. So, what are they doing? It?s to cause chaos here and there, grab some states in advance, and hope they can grab more during the election. But if they hold an election today, free and fair, there is no way they can win. It?s impossible. It?s impossible.

But how do you feel that a former vice presidential candidate of the PDP, Ifeanyi Okowa, abandoned the party to join the APC? How did you feel the day he announced that he was moving to APC?

I didn?t feel anything because I?ve seen it before. Babagana Kingibe abandoned MKO Abiola in 1993. So, there is nothing new.

Let?s talk about the emergency rule in Rivers State. How do you see it?

I see it as daylight robbery. I see it as daylight robbery because there was nothing that was going on in Rivers that the worse was not happening in Borno, in Zamfara, in Niger, Plateau and in Benue. And they didn?t declare a state of emergency. They declared a state of emergency in Rivers because of the interest of one man who wanted to grab the resources of Rivers. And that man is Nyesom Wike. That?s what happened. You know, unfortunately, President Tinubu is enabling gangsterism in Rivers. What?s going on there is gangsterism. Some assembly members left voluntarily. They declared it openly that they?ve left, and yet they were allowed to walk back freely. And the next thing, even Wike is boasting that he wanted them to sack Fubara outrightly, but the President saved him. And that he is Tinubu and, without him, there is no Tinubu and all kinds of things. But since the President doesn?t mind, who am I to complain? I don?t want to be an outsider crying louder than the bereaved.

You?ve always had your eyes on the presidency. You?ve made some moves in the past towards this, under the LP and PDP. Are you still eyeing the presidency in 2027?

Since I wasn?t eyeing the presidency for personal aggrandizement, yes, I would love to, if God permits. But I?ve since realized after two attempts that (getting) the head of the elephant is not child?s play. And I remember I once told Governor Waziri Aminu Tambuwal that, hey, I can never contest again, unless our party would like to voluntarily give me the ticket of the party to run. So, it?s not something I?m going to attempt. I can see now that there are desperate attempts for people to ask Atiku not to run. I don?t know why they?re asking Atiku not to run, but Tinubu can run. So, it shows that Tinubu is the only person they fear. I can tell you it requires a lot of planning, a lot of resources, and I don?t see anybody else now who can take Tinubu on. The only person they are afraid of is Tinubu. They?re not even afraid of Peter Obi. They believe that they can take care of Peter Obi. But if Atiku and Peter Obi can combine, even if it?s only for one term, we need to first of all chase the APC away before we can come back to reorganize our country.

Back to the PDP. A lot of people believe there is an unending crisis in PDP. Why is the PDP crisis unending? And what can be done to bring lasting peace to the party?

If you have an APC demon after you and running after all the other parties, you will have crises. They control the judiciary, they control the legislature, they control the executive, they control the police, they control the army, even the air we breathe, they control it. So, what do you expect?

Does it mean that the crisis in PDP will linger on?

Well, it will linger on until some things are done. If a party has cancer, to borrow one of the phrases of Wike, you cannot treat it with Panadol. Maybe they are still on Chemo. So, they will use Chemotherapy. And at some point the evil spirit disturbing PDP will be exterminated.

Evil spirit?

Yes. It takes an evil spirit to destroy your own thing. Why would you destroy your own body? You are now working for someone else and you are saying you will not leave your party alone. That?s a sign of confusion.

That means he?s bigger than every other person in the party, because he seems to have the final say?

He Is not bigger, but he has the backing of Tinubu. I?ve told you he has the backing of the President. If I have the backing of Timbu today, I can wake up this morning as a certified pauper and by evening I?m a certified billionaire. The power of the Nigerian President is too much. That?s why people have been saying they should decentralize it and make sure that you don?t concentrate power in the hands of one man. The man will become a demigod. That?s what is happening in Nigeria. The power is too much. Everybody?s afraid. Why do you think they are all decamping? They are not decamping because they love Tinubu. They are decamping because they are afraid. They are afraid. That?s why.

Are you aware something popped up in the social media, I don?t know, maybe it?s fake or something, that Rivers Governor Fubara is planning to go to the APC?

I don?t know how real that is. That would be his own decision. But my problem with Fubara is Fubara himself. I thought he had a strategy for the battle. Obviously, he didn?t prepare for the battle. He should have known, and he knew, and he saw, and he witnessed, and he participated, and he enabled Wike when he was on top of Rivers. He knew that the only reason Wike is so relevant is because of money, it?s because of the resources of Rivers State. So, how come he is also not able to use those resources to protect himself? I remember one of my godfathers in those days, God rest his soul, Alhaji Azeez Arisekola Alao, the great Ibadan businessman. He told me once, he said, it?s only a foolish man who will have $10 million and he cannot use $5 million to protect himself. I?m shocked that Fubara could not use the resources of Rivers to protect himself. I?m shocked that even ordinary PR, just to call the people who were all supporting him on telephone, was a problem. I knew so many people who were supporting him voluntarily without asking for a penny. They didn?t need one kobo. Even one day to pick up a phone and call them that he?s seeing what they were doing, I mean, for me, sometimes a man gets what he deserves. It?s unfortunate, because a lot of people have complained to me that, hey, Philip, do you know that this man, we are dying and risking everything for him in Rivers, he doesn?t reach out to them? I don?t know who he was relying upon to help him but, definitely, if he was expecting a miracle, he misfired.

Wike recently said those people coming out to defend Fubara, were collecting cash gifts for defending him??

Well, I?ve never met him. I personally have defended him and I?m still defending him. I?ve never met him one-on-one.

I?ve seen him a couple of times in Rivers, just seen him in front of his boss, but we?ve never interacted. He has never called me. I?ve never called him.

And so I?ve never received a penny from him. And I?m telling you, publicly, anybody who has evidence that someone like me collected money from Fubara should please stand up and say so. Never. I?ve never met him one-on-one. I?ve never spoken to him by telephone. And I mean it. But there are people who live in Rivers. There are diehard people who really want Wike to usurp the resources of Rivers. And they?re so disappointed that, okay, if they are going hungry, how would they be able to fight? If they don?t have money to pay their own bills, how would they be able to fight? So, it?s hearing all those things that depresses me that, oh, you mean, so people were fighting for this man, on behalf of this man, but all you could do was to get chicken change, to mobilize women, to grab the demonstrators. In Nigeria, we?re not like white people. You know, in London, in America, you can demonstrate and the government will change its mind. In Nigeria, it?s like sleep outside, under the sun, the rain, all that, they don?t care. So he should have done much more to protect himself. Apparently, he didn?t do so. (Sunday Sun)

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