President of the Credibility Group, Ide Goddy Uwazurike, has called for the creation of additional 18 states to bring the total number of states to 54.

According to him, this was one of the recommendations of the 2014 National Conference, which suggested that each of the six zones should have nine states.

He also noted that the reasons for the establishment of the regional development are not yet clear, suggesting it might be a bid to create office and job for the boys.

In an interview with VINCENT KALU, the former president of Aka Ikenga, the Igbo intelligentsia, asked former military Head of State, General Yakubu Gowon (rtd) to write his own account of the Nigeria history as his counterpart, Babangida has done.

He emphasised that the N54 trillion 2025 budget can be fully implemented if the political leaders curtail their profligacy.

General Babangida?s book, A Journey in Service, has elicited reactions and controversies. What is your take on the book?

In the first place, the book has achieved its purpose, which is to get us talking and to keep the record straight from the author?s point of view, and which is to say, ?this is where I am.? That?s what it is. If It is not important, the book will not be raising dust. It is raising dust because it disclosed a number of things. Yes, it could have disclosed more. From the Igbo man?s point of view, he cleared the false narrative that we carried out the 1966 January coup.

Others have written. Adewale Ademoyega wrote. Ben Gbulie wrote. But this is the first time a man of this stature wrote about it. Obasanjo didn?t write it clearly the way IBB did. IBB was very firm that it was not an Igbo coup. So, I?m glad he wrote and I will always be glad that he opened up, because we got a name, we got a tag. I remember that in 1966 July coup, they said it was revenge. In other words, we Igbo did something, so they are revenging. And it was just not true. The Igbo did not do anything. So, I?m glad he wrote the book. It was a revolution. However, if it were an Igbo coup; so, Igbo planned a coup to install Awolowo as the leader, or as the president?

The man, Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu was just an Igbo man because he had two names, Chukwuma and Nzeogwu. He didn?t have any choice. Kaduna was his place of birth. Kaduna was where he lived. Kaduna was where he grew up. He absorbed their nature. He absorbed a lot about them. He lived and died still preaching.

If you remember Nzeogwu, you don?t say that he was just a revolutionary, but also an idealist. He was angry like many young men of the age that things were not going well. Just like many of us are angry now. In their own case, they decided to do something. In our own case, we lament.

So, it was the era of activist revolutionaries, not anti-revolutionaries like us.

In that period, many angry young men were springing up and taking over power.

Today, they are springing up also and going towards Russia for protection. But in those days, they had an ideal prime minister who was in prison, Awolowo, and they were not happy.

So the whole thing was just to bring out Awolowo and put him in power, never to put an Igbo man. So, they are saying that Igbo people plotted acoup to install a Yoruba man?

The coup failed because an Igbo man foiled it. Everybody keeps forgetting that an Igbo man foiled the coup, and that?s why it failed. So I?m glad he wrote. And I?m glad he tried to put the record straight.

One thing people do, which I hate most, is that when it is time to put the record straight, they become taciturn. Nobody lives here forever. It is that which he has written that stays forever. So, IBB has written his own, let others write theirs.

Some people are saying Gens Gowon and Danjuma, who were major factors in the military incursion in our polity should write their own books. Are you also thinking in that direction?

I know Danjuma has come forward to write his own; to give his own account. Young officers like IBB have done that. Young officers like Buhari will never do that. Gowon, we are waiting for him; to hear from him. Let us know what he has to say.

Yes, he was not the leader of the coup, but a beneficiary. He is the one to tell us why Ogundipe, the highest ranking officer was not made the head of state after the death of Ironsi. He will be the one to tell us why they shoved him aside. We are still waiting for Gowon to fill up the gaps.

But he went to Aburi, and until now he has never told us anything. He went to the British and they interpreted to him the Aburi Accord, and he changed the story. Ojukwu held out and said that?s not what we discussed.

Gowon has not come forward to say, well, we discussed that, this is why I changed it. Except one retired permanent secretary, who is now late, that gave a small hint that Gowon was not properly briefed on what to expect.

Ojukwu, being a well-trained man in England, was able to bamboozle him. I understood from him that they explained to him what it meant, and that he would lose power. And then he turned around.

So, believe you me, we need records to be kept. If there?s any officer who?s still alive, please write your own. Even if you are a guardroom man, even if you are a gatekeeper, write. We want to hear.

With these revelations coming out from the IBB book, what should be done for the country to forge ahead as a nation state?

The South Africans had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Obasanjo did his. I know that there are things you do, and we then start taking steps. My worry is that someone like the president today may not be interested. Most politicians are actually interested in the next election and not in nation-building. That?s my worry. Obasanjo could have fitted in, but by his second time, he was more interested in continuing.

Let?s hope and wait for somebody who will reconcile us. As for discrimination against Igbo, it is embedded in the DNA of many people. Let me just give you an example. We had a president called Buhari, who in fact decided that he wouldn?t talk to the Igbo people.

Now we have Tinubu, who is going in one direction, South-West and North-West. That is all. Every other person is an appendage.

The House of Representatives committee recommended 31 more states in addition to the 36 already existing. What do you have to say on this?

It was a wrong choice of words by the Deputy Speaker, Benjamin Kalu. He was supposed to say that they received 31 requests for the creation of new states.

During the 2014 National Conference, various groups submitted petitions for state creation. We went through every petition. And remember, Jonathan?s national conference is the nearest you can ever think of when it comes to getting every part of Nigeria under one roof. It is only when you go through our report that you know. All the petitions are still there, and they gave their reasons.

Hausa language is only a language that unites people. Hausa tribe is small. Fulani is even smaller. But down here, we say Fulani, Hausa- Fulani, when in fact there are minorities in the north. So, it is only in a state like Taraba or in Adamawa, that you see them standing up.

So, at the 2014 National Conference, I moved the motion for the creation of 18 states. And it was accepted, so that each of the six zones will have nine states.

And we also gave a caveat that if any state finds it difficult to cope, that they were free to collapse into another state. That was the condition. So, if Jonathan had come in by 2015, that would have been achieved. But when Buhari came, he said, he wouldn?t look at it. And he never did.

People of Katsina State will still remember that the nonsense going on there is because someone like Buhari said he wouldn?t look at the report. There are lots of grievances among the various tribes. Believe me, a lot, and they are deep; very are deep. So when we pretend that they don?t exist, then we are not being honest.

I wish the House of Representatives had actually followed another route in handling that issue. I believe we need more states. When we have more states, the governors will no longer fly by private jets. They?ll go by normal flight. The cost of chartering a jet three times a week is enough to pay many civil servants, to take care of roads. It is when you have creation of states that you talk of development of hidden areas and open them up. Every development is a blessing when it comes to rural development.

Tinubu has signed a N54 trillion budget. Does the country have the capacity for its implementation?

We have the capacity if only they will curtail their own profligacy because as politicians they have to live up to their reputations.

Let me put it this way: if the members of the executive council say all our allowances, we are forgoing them, we only have our salaries. And the members of the National Assembly say the same thing, then a lot of money will come in; and the state governors, like I said, stop flying chartered jets, a lot of money will be saved. Most of these governors actually don?t stay in the guest houses of their states in Abuja, they stay in hotels and they now keep hotel rooms on permanent basis. Most of them stay in Abuja and only visit their states. Only very few actually are humble enough to stay in their states.

There is the capacity to implement the budget if they can reduce the expenses, and cut the cost of governance, which was one of the issues we tackled at the national conference. During the agitation we had, Tinubu was one of us. We talked about restructuring, and the first item is the reduction of the cost of governance, but unfortunately, by the time he came to power, he increased the cost of governance. He went the other way around. So, let us hope, because the moment you stop hoping, you are finished.

There?s agitation about the allocations to various sectors in the zones. The South-East and the South-South have cried out that not much in terms of road and other infrastructure was allocated to their regions. What is your position on this?

Well, you know that in this country, dog eats dog and then the issue of shark eating shark has been the name of the game.

So, if you don?t have strong politicians you get nothing; you are a houseboy. That?s the way I see it. So, the South-East and the South-South have been suffering. Since the 1970s, the South-East knew that its own survival was in itself, not from outside. During the war, we managed to survive; the reverend fathers and sisters were there, they didn?t leave us; they stayed with us till they were expelled in March 1970; and Igbo took over everything ? from roads to schools construction. So, we don?t depend on government. But, the unfairness of it all is that those who really don?t need it get the highest allocation, which is wrong. So, we?re calling on Tinubu to know that equality, fairness and level playing field are the things we?re asking for. We?re not asking for anything special, we?re not asking for favours; do to us as you?re doing to others. After all, the bulk of the wealth is coming from the Southeast and South- South and of course, Southwest.

As the race for 2027 has begun, elected political office holders and other political stalwarts in PDP and Labour parties that are supposed to provide strong opposition are now defecting to APC. What does that portend for the country?s democracy?

It portends evil In our polity. It means that we?re going towards having a one-party state and from the way the electoral bodies are handling elections, you don?t need to be told that politicians are jumping to the ruling party so that they can win. Like they say, do everything you can to win and leave the rest. That?s what?s going on. APC will implode.

The PDP Is actually destroyed from inside by collaborators. The same thing goes for Labour. The only image the Labour has is Peter Obi, but they mismanaged it. They were supposed to take advantage of the Obedients, instead they didn?t even care. All they were after is, I am the chairman this and that. Meanwhile, their own person kept on moving up and the parties kept on going down. PDP and Labour Party are in trouble.

Nigerian?s external debt now has hit N150 trillion. It was N87 trillion about 22 months ago. What do you say to this?

It means that bad management continues, which came to light under Buhari. When Tinubu came, we thought he was coming as an expert, coming with the best brains. Even before the best brains happened; he recklessly announced the removal of fuel subsidy and then the mismanagement of the foreign exchange. The irony was that people clapped and praised him. Those of us who knew that things would go up ? every price from medication to food ? everything must go. Since he came, the cost of living has gone haywire. So, we are suffering, we are not talking of debt, but survival. If we are talking of survival and the government is putting more burden on us, then we are in trouble.

Citizens are told that trillions of naira has been saved from fuel subsidy, yet the government has continued to take loans.. What is your take on this?

It is called propaganda economy, which is when you are doing B, you are doing D; and when you doing A, you are doing C. Buhari borrowed and borrowed and we never knew what he did with the money. Tinubu is also borrowing and borrowing, and today they say they have saved a lot. Before you could even finish understanding what they are saying, the next thing you hear is that we are borrowing again. What they are taken the loan for, nobody knows. The government has become opaque since 2015, and that is not what we bargained for.

The country has regional development commissions for every political zone. What is your view on this?

It Is increasing the cost of governance. What it is supposed to do, we really don?t know much in the sense that it is still at the planning stage. They launched a policy, they created a body along. If we say we are setting up a regional commission to actually to take care of the roads, it becomes clear. But you just have a regional commission to do what? I don?t know. That is my answer to what it can do and it cannot do, except that you have offices and you created jobs for the boys.

A publication about the killing of northern drivers in the South-East triggered a demonstration in Jos. How can various groups live in harmony?

Some hirelings have been demonstrating in Jos, Plateau State that northern drivers were being killed in the South East, which is not true. This campaign was at its peak in 2021, and was given maximum front page coverage by an Abuja based newspaper.

In that same 2021, I monitored the coverage, noted that the news was consistently attributed to ?our team of reporters.?

After reading each edition, I would reach out to the place where the killings were said to have taken place. There was no killing, no violence and most importantly, vehicular traffic was going on day and night. The northerners living in the South-East were there firmly established.

I then concluded that it was a case of giving Igbo people a bad name as a prelude to violence. I tackled the demonic people behind the falsehood in the media. The media house responded that the publications were true. When I went for the trial of Mazi Nnamdi Kanu, the media house invited me to come over to their studio for a full TV interview.

I declined, but asked that the interview be held at the Federal High Court premises. The media house declined but stopped all anti South-East campaigns. Now, four years later, this anti South-East campaign has resurfaced, this time in the peaceful town of Jos.

The urchins are given placards, which they cannot read and N5, 000.00 to move in circles.The sponsor/ sponsors are the descendants of the people who labelled the 1966 January coup as Igbo coup. The sponsors are anxious to arouse hatred towards Igbo persons. The sponsors are the relations of people who accused Igbo people of sponsorship of Boko Haram.

For record purposes, drivers and transport vehicles owners have two powerful unions, the National Union of Road Transport Workers (NURTW) and National Union of Road Transport Owners (NARTO).

The two unions are operating in the South-East without complaint, but a group of urchins are daily manipulated to give false and malicious news about the South-East.

I am calling on the security agencies to step in and take control. Evil must be tamed and destroyed at its infancy.

Nigeria is a secular state, and for the first, some states in the North have closed down schools for the Ramadan. What is your view on this?

Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran gave generous scholarships to northern Muslim men in the 70s and 80s. The scholars returned but were aloof or not really vibrant in the mission of radicalising young Muslims. Then, in the 2000s, ISIS sprouted and tutored young Kanuri men led by Jamiu. The name of the group is very long but we called it by its mission statement, Boko Haram. Boko is book. Haram is prohibited or an Islamic crime.

Later on, ISWAP became dominant in the Kanuri area. Still later on, the gun-toting Fulani jumped into North-West, but for commercial reasons. Now fast forward to 2025 Ramadan, where Kano, Katsina, Kebbi and Bauchi states (Fulani-ruled areas), have declared no schooling during the Ramadan. Now, do you see how ideologies spread?

Education is not good for Muslims (Boko Haram). Schooling is not good during Ramadan. We should brace up for a nationwide campaign on education before it goes the way of the economy. (Saturday Sun)

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