A former Director General of the Land Forces Simulation Centre and ex-director of procurement at the Defence Headquarters, Maj. Gen. Dayo Olukoju (retd) speaks with Imoleayo Oyedeyi on how porous borders and soft immigration policies of the Economic Community of West African States are fuelling the influx of terrorists into Nigeria, among other sundry security issues

Last week, you issued a circular warning people that some suspected kidnappers were planning to strike in the Akoko parts of Ondo State. Can you shed more light on the matter?

By my position in the state, we have, over the years, been trying to make sure that our people are safe because the government alone cannot do it. So, we developed a security architecture to keep Akoko safe by protecting lives and property as much as possible. We monitor influx of bandits into our area. Most of the time, people see the bandits moving, they move about carrying arms. Sometimes, our farmers run into them and notify us. That is how much I can tell you.

Does that mean that before any attack can happen in any community, the security agencies, especially the police, would have known about it?

The police or other security agencies are not wizards. That is why whatever information we have; we pass it to them. We are the ones on the farm, in the market, and on the road. So, when you see unusual movements of people carrying arms within your locality, you need to inform everybody and the police so that people can be aware and be very careful. That was what I did. I shared the circular with the police, the military, and Amotekun. I even posted the circular on several platforms. It was just to tell people to be conscious of the presence of bandits because most times, they come in from Kogi State and return after some time. So, once people see them around, they quickly contact me, and I spread the information immediately.

What do you think could be responsible for the recent influx of bandits into the South-West?

It is because the military is disturbing them in the North, and they will always like to go to where there is little resistance. If the bandits are being disturbed by the military operations, they will want to run away, either to hibernate or settle down somewhere else. It is natural.

Could bandits from neighbouring African countries have infiltrated the South-West?

There are possibilities for that because the soft immigration policies of the Economic Community of West African States are a big problem. ECOWAS member states believe that you can pass in your goods, and your movement should not be restricted. And that is the soft immigration policies I am talking about. So, the tendency of the bandits to take that advantage has been there. Look at what is happening between Mexico and the United States now; the new president has said he would make sure that the border between the two countries is closed. But for us in Nigeria, we cannot shut our border because that ECOWAS policy is still in existence. So, the hoodlums are taking advantage of the policy to cross over into Nigeria. They can even move from five countries and come in. Maybe there is a need to review that policy in view of the current security challenges.

Do you support the view that Nigeria?s borders lack adequate security that can checkmate the invasion of bandits despite the ECOWAS soft immigration policy?

I think the current minister of interior has been doing a lot in that regard. That was why some of those people could be arrested at the entry points. It is just for the government to step up those efforts to curtail the inflow of illegal immigrants into our country because these criminals do take that advantage to cross our border at will. But I think the government is doing much in that regard. What is left is to Improve on whatever they are doing.

There seems to be a high proliferation of arms in the country. Aren?t our porous borders contributing to this?

Obviously, they are. That is why I have always been advocating a comprehensive surveillance system so that our borders can be monitored electronically. If possible, there could even be the construction of walls, especially if we feel there is a strong need to stop them by all means. That is what happened between the US and Mexico border.

It?s been observed over time that some parts of Ondo State seem to be witnessing recurrent kidnapping incidents. Some people have blamed this on the poor state of our roads, especially the federal roads that connect Ondo and Edo State. What is your take on this?

It is one of them. You know, the criminals will stay where there is no smooth ride; where you will have to slow down. It will be suicidal for them to stay on a smooth highway. So, they go and stay in some portions that are in a state of disrepair. And when vehicles are coming, they tend to slow down at those portions. And once they slow down, they become easy targets for the bandits and kidnappers. But what I have seen is that constructions are ongoing on the federal highways along the Ondo-Kogi corridor. But obviously, the bad shape of the road is one of the factors because most of the spots where they kidnap are those places where the roads are in bad shape.

It Is just logical for anybody, for instance, if you want to commit a crime, you will go and stay where your targets will be very exposed to you. That?s just the fact. So, it is one of the reasons we have a high number of kidnappings and armed robberies in the areas you have mentioned.

In contrast, we have witnessed a high rate of terror attacks in the North. Why is it easier for the terrorists to penetrate the northern communities?

It depends on where they came from. We have said there is an influx of foreign criminals into Nigeria, and they come from neighboring countries of Chad and Niger. So, more of them will be in the North. It is just that when you want to locate an industry, you have to consider the nearness to raw materials. So, since the terrorists are coming from Niger, Chad, and others, their immediate concentration will be on the northern communities, which are closer to where they are coming from. It will take a long time before they start coming down South. That is why I commend Governor Seyi Makinde, who raised the alarm for everybody to be conscious of the fact that there is a growing movement of assailants from the northern parts of Nigeria to the South-West.

The military has over time accused residents of northern Nigeria of shielding the terrorists and colluding with them to destabilise the region. Is this possible considering that the same northerners are at the receiving end of the attacks?

In a society where there is a lack of identity, freedom, justice, survival, and wellness, there is always a strong possibility of having a high rate of insecurity. In other words, where you don?t have perfect governance, there are likely to be high rates of crime. So, when people find it easier to make money through some of the crimes being perpetrated, you will always see a high number of them going into it.

For example, if some people decide that they don?t want any criminals in their community, and everybody there supports this position, there will definitely be an effective community-based security approach in such a community. But if this is lacking, there will surely be a lot of criminal activities being perpetrated in the localities. So, the first question is: are those basic needs of the people being provided?

Does that mean the northern governors are liable in any way?

I have not said that. But if all those things I listed are not available to the people, there will be problems. Look at survival for example: if there are no conditions of survival for the citizens, some of them are likely to commit crimes. And if those caught in the act are not properly dealt with in line with the laws of the land, there will also be problems.

I have always advocated that there should be special tribunals for terrorists. They should not be taken to normal courts where they will give them just five to six years in jail. Even when they go into prison, you later see some of them being released. I don?t know how probably on technical grounds. But if you have special tribunals that treat terrorists? cases, it will achieve better results in the anti-terrorism war.

In 2021, during Buhari?s administration, the UAE identified individuals who allegedly financed Boko Haram, and while arrests were made, there has been no update on their cases. Recently, President Tinubu announced that his government has convicted over 100 terrorism sponsors. Do you think the lack of transparency and reliance on secret trials for handling terrorism sponsors is becoming counterproductive?

I don?t want to agree that the government did not convict the indicted persons as it claimed. I am very sure they are being prosecuted. We may not just be aware of the procedures for such prosecutions. This is because no government will come out and say they are prosecuting some terrorists when they are not doing so.

It is just for us to find out from the Ministry of Justice what has happened to the arrested terrorists and their sponsors. And that is why I suggested that there should be special tribunals for the trial of the terrorists. That way, everybody will be carried along. But when you mingle them with those of civil cases, people?s attention may not be drawn to such prosecutions. So, I think we should have arrangements for the special tribunals in the Ministry of Justice so that we can deal with terrorism cases as they come. (Sunday PUNCH)

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