Ambassador Umar Iliya Damagum assumed the role of acting chairman of the People?s Democratic Party (PDP) during a period when the party was still recovering from its defeat in the 2023 presidential election. This loss was compounded by the anti-party activities of some prominent members, which many believe contributed to the PDP?s poor performance at the polls. Damagum?s critics have pointed his inability to discipline certain members, including both former and sitting governors, as a significant obstacle to the party?s recovery. In this interview with Weekend Trust, Damagum discusses the origin of the party?s problems, his relationship with key figures within the party among others.

After nine years, your party, the PDP, remains in the opposition. What do you think is preventing you from reclaiming power?

Well, to be very blunt, we all know what led to our loss of power during President Goodluck Jonathan?s tenure. The presidency was supposed to rotate after Yar?adua?s term, but when it didn?t, many people were aggrieved. Unfortunately, we couldn?t put those grievances aside to sit down and say, ?okay, even if it?s just another four years, let him finish, and then we?ll move on.? We failed to realise that the consequences of not addressing those grievances would be so severe for the party.

We overlooked the possibility of losing power. You saw governors leave the party on those grounds and actively work against us. Ever since, the party has struggled significantly.

However, after our loss in 2015, most of those who left returned, with the exception of Amaechi. They contested again under the PDP banner.

We actually performed very well in that election, and we all know what happened next. INEC pulled off its ?magic,? but I firmly believe we won in 2019.

We carried the baggage of 2019 into the 2023 election. And, as you know, in politics, if you?re still holding onto unresolved issues from a previous election, they will inevitably resurface. That?s exactly what happened in 2023.

We couldn?t manage ourselves properly. There was factional fighting, and the outcome of our convention brought more problems. And again, INEC worked its ?magic? in the middle of the night. Despite our internal crises, the party actually won that election.

Are you saying you won the 2023 election?

Yes, we won the 2023 election.

How do you mean? At what level?

Let me give you a simple example. In the North-east, for the first time, we won in Yobe and Borno. They couldn?t announce the results for three days. They changed the results. Why else would they be in such a hurry to announce results in the early hours of the morning?

That has always been the tradition for announcing results.

It has never been the tradition. We?re talking about two different things here. The results didn?t match what was in the iRev system. At one point, they even said the system had collapsed. They still haven?t addressed the core issue, which is the credibility of the election?s most crucial organ.

So, you?re saying that despite the differences and the fact that some governors weren?t fully with the PDP at the time, the PDP still won the 2023 election?

I?m telling you, we won the 2023 election.

Just two weeks ago, a member of your party referred to the PDP as a ?once upon a time party.? Some have even said the PDP is dead. So, if the PDP won the 2023 election as you are claiming?

Who said that? Name the person.

Senator Dino Melaye said it. It?s on record. Ambassador, if your party won the 2023 election, why are some people referring to it as a ?once upon a time party??

Let me remind you about that statement credited to Dino. He?s part of the problem. Why? Because he ran for governor in Kogi State and didn?t even vote for himself. Put that on record: he didn?t go out to vote in his own election.

Even as the candidate?

Even as the candidate. So, I?ll leave it to you to judge based on that. Who?s really damaging the party? If the party is generous enough to give you its platform to run, you have a duty to improve its fortunes. Yes, you can win or lose, but at least lose credibly if you must.

This is a party that was once seen as the largest in Africa, akin to South Africa?s ANC, and even said to be capable of ruling forever. What really went wrong?

Without any apology to anyone, this PDP is still the party to beat. It remains the largest party we?ve always claimed it to be. Why? Despite the crisis that started in 2015, we?ve survived as a solid entity ? the People?s Democratic Party. I want you to underline that. These other groups ? APC, NNPP, Labour ? they?re just concoctions. They?re not real parties, just vehicles created to run for office.

The truly democratic party is the PDP. Of course, as in any African country, losing an election brings challenges, and that?s what we?re seeing now.

We should blame ourselves, not anyone else. If we had handled our situation in 2015 better, we wouldn?t be in this position now. But despite our struggles, we remain determined and committed to bouncing back.

We still have 13 governors, nearly half the senators in the National Assembly, and others. And keep in mind, even in the APC, who are the key players? Former PDP members. Only a few of them weren?t part of the PDP.

Do you consider them as your members in diaspora?

Given how they?ve acted, contrary to how they behaved while with us, we wouldn?t associate with them on those terms.

But a leader within your party mentioned recently that some of those people have started showing interest in returning to the PDP, even seeking positions. Can you comment on that?

As I said when I inaugurated the reconciliation and disciplinary committees, they are members of this party, and this party is open to them. They?re free to come back home.

PDP is a party that believes in internal democracy. We?ve held several conventions, all credible. Our candidates have emerged without major crises. Yes, people aspire, and only one person can win. Some will accept that, others will feel hurt. It all depends on how the situation is managed. But the PDP is still the party to beat, and they can still return and realise their ambitions.

Where they are now, they know it?s been failure. Some thought they could succeed on their own, but they?ve experienced the reality. I wouldn?t be surprised if they?re thinking of coming back home so we can reunite and work together to remove this ?monster? called the APC from our country.

You?ve been the PDP chairman for a while, yet the crisis persists. Don?t you feel you are not doing enough to return the PDP to its glory days?

It?s alwayss like this. When you lose an election, the person running the party at the time gets blamed. But in reality, let me remind you: I wasn?t the head of the PDP during the election.

Once candidates are chosen ? even at the House of Assembly level ? they form their own campaign councils. Sometimes, they don?t even consult the party.

We had a presidential campaign council responsible for the election. The party at that point is just a member of that council. We don?t make the decisions.

But once the election is over, whether won or lost, the party takes back control. So, if people are blaming the party or the National Working Committee for the election?s failure, they?re not being fair. We weren?t the ones running the show at the time.

Governors have their own campaign councils too. Funds allocated for the election don?t come through us.

Why are you not pushing back?

When you?re leading a fragmented party where people are unhappy ? people who played both good and bad roles ? you have to be careful. In every state, there are such individuals. What should I do? Start punishing everyone? I?d end up scattering the entire house.

You need to focus on healing first. We?re trying to heal because, frankly, most of us have made mistakes. In the healing process, you see who sincerely repents and who doesn?t. At a certain point, when it?s clear someone won?t change, you refer them to the appropriate disciplinary channels. But if, from the start, I went around punishing everyone, the party would disintegrate.

My role is to take the bullet for all those who?ve erred, to ensure the party remains united. Look at the crises in the Labour Party, NNPP, and APC. Does the PDP have a faction? No, we remain one indivisible party. I?m prepared to take more bullets to keep the party intact until my tenure is over.

You mentioned that those willing to repent will be welcomed back, but what about those who refuse? Are you now ready to sanction erring members?

We?ve just inaugurated reconciliation and disciplinary committees. If people previously thought Damagum was shielding certain individuals, now we have committees to handle that.

These committees are headed by responsible and senior figures in the country that can look people in the eye and tell them the hard truth. We?re taking this step by step, and we?ll reach our destination.

There?s a general impression that you?re aligned with former Rivers State governor, Nyesom Wike, and will continue to protect him no matter what. Initially, people thought you were a supporter of the former vice president, Atiku Abubakar, with some even claiming Atiku was instrumental in your membership of the NWC. What is the true position of things?

Let me clarify: my being a member of the NWC is thanks to my governors from the North-east ? Bala Mohammed (Bauchi), Ahmadu Fintiri (Adamawa), and then Darius Ishaku (former Taraba governor). There was never a point when Atiku, Wike, or anyone else was involved in that. It was down to our three governors, and that?s it. Regarding whether I was an Atiku supporter, let me say that politics is dynamic. I?ve been consistent since I joined this party in 1999, and I?ve never once contemplated leaving it. Never.

To answer your question directly, Atiku has left and returned, but I?ve remained. However, I?ve always had a good relationship with him and consider him a leader of excellence. I wouldn?t deny that fact.

As for Wike, some claim he?s ?bought me over.? Well, if I had a price, why don?t they repurchase me from Wike? These narratives are just designed to create bad blood against me.

Wike himself has said on television ? I believe in his last interview ? that I didn?t support him during the convention. He wanted my support, but I didn?t give it. So, if he admitted it, what support could he be seeking from me now that I didn?t offer back then?

I?m simply being careful. I don?t want to bring anyone?s personal battles into the party. From day one, I?ve said and will continue to say: if you have personal issues with Wike, go and resolve them with him. He?s never publicly criticised or disrespected the party. If he had, I would?ve sanctioned him. Most of his conflicts are with individuals. How can I take personal battles and turn them into party issues?

Even though you said your party won, some argued that if not for Wike?s actions ahead of the 2023 election, PDP would be in the Villa now. Isn?t that reason enough to be done with him?

It?s easy to point fingers, but remember: when you point one finger, four are pointing back at you. We?ve just been cautious.

I won?t take that kind of action as an individual. We have party organs for this. Disciplinary action often starts from the ward level. Wike is a member from Rivers State, and if any complaints arise, they must come from there. The ward brings the complaint to the headquarters, and we refer it to the disciplinary committee.

They haven?t done that yet?

Not yet. Once they do, it?ll be referred to the disciplinary committee. And why is it always Wike, Wike, Wike? There are others in the party who have done worse than Wike, and we?re aware of that.

Like who?

When the time is right, you?ll find out.

If others have done worse, why is it only Wike who has been summoned by the committee?

You?d need to check with the committee chair for the full list of those summoned. I?ve given them their assignment ? to do their work and make recommendations to me. If I don?t act on their recommendations, they can go public and say, ?We recommended this, and the chairman didn?t act.?

Some believe that the internal crisis in the PDP has grown beyond just the Atiku and Wike factions, with the Governors? Forum now involved.

Let me clarify, as far as we?re concerned, there?s no Atiku or Wike faction. These are just two individuals with their own interests. The leadership of the party is in the hands of the Governors? Forum. If we look to any leadership, it?s to them.

But the Rivers crisis seems to have created tension between the NWC and the BoT.

There?s no crisis between the NWC and the BoT. The BoT went to Rivers on the request of the NWC.

If neither Atiku nor Wike were behind your appointment as acting chair, and some claim this position should be with the North-central?

People often interpret the constitution as they like. The idea behind having two deputy chairmen is to cover the North and South. If the chairman is from the North and leaves, the deputy from the North steps in. There?s nothing in the constitution that specifies North-central or North-east.

When the chairmanship was zoned to the North, we all sat down as a region and decided North-central should take it. I?m the deputy from the North, and I have not moved into the chairman?s office yet. If I were to leave, there?s precedent for another region stepping in, as we saw when Secondus left, and someone from the South-west stepped in temporarily.

It?s a political arrangement, not a constitutional one. If today, the North-central decides on a candidate, they would still need the approval of the entire North because that person represents the whole region.

Right now, I?m in an acting capacity. The NEC could decide to confirm me, and then we?d get a deputy from the region Ayu is from. It?s all possible, but it must be through political understanding.

Our constitution doesn?t mention North-east or North-central ? it just refers to the North. That?s why some people have gone to court for an interpretation. But to be clear, I didn?t ask anyone to go to court just to prolong my stay.

From what you?re saying, it doesn?t seem like a ?sit-tight? situation for you, but after your last meeting, there were allegations that those who brought you in wanted you to remain chairman.

People have raised various agitations. At that time, there was tension. But one thing you can?t take away from the PDP is our ability to resolve our issues.

They said, at this time, even the North-central hasn?t decided on who they want. Why create tension where there is none? After all, I?m still acting chairman. If I can maintain stability, why rush into another crisis?

Currently, there are about eight people from the North-central vying for this seat, which could lead to another crisis. So, we have mechanisms in place to manage this. And as I said during the NEC meeting, it?s not a do-or-die affair.

Some say your party has had so much internal problems that it has hindered its ability to play its opposition role. What do you say to this?

You see, let me tell you, you don?t go out to fight when your house is on fire. You have to manage that fire first. Once it?s quenched, then you can go out to fight alongside those who helped put it out. Otherwise, you might get killed in the process.

Isn?t it self-serving to focus on your party?s internal wrangling while Nigeria is facing challenges?

Is there any policy this government has implemented that we haven?t condemned? We?ve been consistent in voicing our concerns.

Is condemnation enough?

What else do you want us to do?

Some argue that when your party was in power, the APC did more than just voice condemnations. For instance, they protested against subsidy removal.

I want to caution you; we must be tactful. The country is insecure, and any spontaneous reaction could lead to disaster. We love this country too much to follow this ?insensitive? government and drive the country into a crisis that could consume us all. We must be careful due to the current situation. You know this, as well as I do.

Just travelling between Abuja and Kaduna requires all the prayers you know. A time will come, and we?re almost there, when things will change.

People have divergent views about Tinubu?s preparedness. Did you anticipate what is happening now?

I ran into an APC supporter within the week who lamented that Tinubu disappointed them. I told him I knew this would happen. He claimed it was this same Tinubu that worked in Lagos, but I reminded him that it wasn?t Tinubu, it was his team that did the so called magic. Where?s that team now?

He still has some of his team members with him, doesn?t he?

Where is Fashola? Where is Osinbajo? Where is Aregbesola?

But it was Tinubu who appointed that team, right? Couldn?t he have appointed them again?

The team that worked in Lagos isn?t the one in place now. And if things aren?t working, why not change tactics? We?ve done that before.

I remember when Jonathan increased fuel price, and there was uproar. He responded by reducing the price and finding alternatives to ease the people?s suffering. Governance is about serving the people, not yourself and your family.

If it were the PDP, would it have reversed this?

Definitely! We wouldn?t have started this until we were sure of the consequences.

But your candidate said he would remove the subsidy.

Yes, but you don?t remove subsidy immediately after taking oath of office, without first understanding the situation.

By next year, permutations for the 2027 elections will begin. Do you think the PDP will be ready to offer a credible alternative?

There?s no alternative to the PDP. We?ve been tested. Anywhere you go in the country, people know the APC is finished, whether at the state or national level.

If elections were held today, what would happen?

They (APC) wouldn?t stand a chance. People will chase them out.

Given your crisis, is the PDP be prepared if elections are held today?

Yes, we are. There?s no crisis in the PDP. You, the press, amplify these things. We just held congresses in 24 states, and aside from Rivers, did you hear of any crisis?

What about Katsina and Benue?

There was no crisis in Katsina and Benue. They went to court, and the court ruled that it was an internal matter. On Tuesday there was a judgement affirming that the party acted properly. So, let?s assume you have Katsina, Benue, and Rivers out of 24 states. Wouldn?t you credit us with holding mostly rancour-free congresses?

In 2023, your party abandoned zoning. What should we expect moving forward?

When the time comes, we?ll make a decision. It?s not yet time.

You must have studied what led to the PDP?s loss in the presidential election. What lessons have you learned?

Whenever interests clash, you?ll have crisis. But that is not about hating the party; it?s about personal interests being affected. We have internal mechanisms to resolve problems, and we?ll use them. By the time we approach 2027, you?ll see people flocking back to the PDP. Many have already expressed interest in returning. This party has always welcomed its members back with open arms.

You mean prodigal sons?

Call it what you like, but we?ve always taken our people back because we believe in justice, internal democracy, and unity. We?re a pan-Nigerian party that?s truly inclusive. We?re wiser now, and we won?t allow anyone to take our place again.

With all these issues around you, what gives you joy as a politician?

My joy comes from seeing the hand of God in everything I do. I?m passionate about this party, which I joined in 1999. I?ve held various positions and believe that my loyalty to the party has led to my success.

Even though I?m currently in a hot seat, I?m grateful to God for my journey. If I?d left the PDP in frustration, I wouldn?t be where I am today. I believe in this party.

You?re not considering leaving?

The day I leave this party, I?ll be retiring from politics. (Weekend Trust)

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