•Also speaks on why they founded Southern, M’Belt leaders group

Elder statesman and leader of the Southern and Middle-Belt Leaders Forum (SMBLF), Pa Edwin Clark says the group was formed to fight for the interests of Southerners, people from the Middle Belt and minorities from across the country.

In this interview culled from Saturday Sun, the former Federal Commissioner for Information spoke on a number of other issues, including continued detention of Nnamdi Kanu, marginalisation of Igbo, minimum wage, state police, allegations of nepotism against President Tinubu, and others.

What are the objectives of the Southern and Middle-Belt Leaders Forum (SMBLF) and how do you intend to achieve such objectives?

The Southern and Middle-Belt Leaders Forum is an organisation set up by the leaders and the people of these areas. Southern means South-West, South-South and South-East, together with 17 governors. In the Middle Belt, we’re talking about Plateau, Benue, Kwara, Niger, Nassarawa, and Kogi. But it expands beyond geographical extension. For instance, Southern Kaduna is part of us, and then Major General Lekwot is the leader of Southern Kaduna, with Dr. Bitrus Pogu as the President of the Middle Belt Forum. Now as I said, it extends to Kaduna, it extends to Kebbi and Zamfara in the North-West, it extends to Niger, it extends to Kwara because the Yorubas there claim to belong to this organisation. Like the former military governor of Kwara State, Adebayo.

So, whereas in southern Nigeria, you know them as mentioned to you. Now, there was a time in the beginning during the time we had the president of Nigeria, ill in Saudi Arabia – President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua. And so we had many groups, the Yoruba groups, the South-South, the South-East group, everybody saying that Jonathan should be made to act.

And then we had what we call Congress for Equality and Change (CEC) led by former President of the Senate, Ameh Ebute, that was the name we gave to it. And when it was inaugurated, over 400 people attended including about 10 retired generals. General Lekwot, General Dogonyaro, General Bamaiyi, and so on. They all attended and we had a very good meeting.

Now you’ve asked a question about the purpose. But before I come to that, then we in the south also formed Southern Nigeria People’s Assembly and we used to meet both in Abuja and in Ikenne, Mrs Awolowo was the leader. So we used to go and meet her because she couldn’t travel. Then, the purpose was to work for the interests of Nigerians who come from the south. So we went to Uyo for our first inaugural meeting, which was attended by the leaders. We were over 45 that attended the meeting in Uyo. We spent two nights there. We were the guests of the governor of Akwa Ibom State who is now President of the Senate, Senator Godswill Akpabio. Then it was agreed that the organisation should fight against corruption, injustice, suppression, subjugation. That if we belong to a country where everybody is equal, then there’s no reason some people should feel inferior while others feel very superior.

So then, we agreed to set up an office, which Akpabio gave us in Uyo. Then we had an audience with Mr President, Goodluck Jonathan on several occasions. And to cut a long story short, that led to the issue of sounding in the opinion of Nigerians with regard to the Constitution. That the Constitution was a military document. It was a decree so we should have another one, which was why he set up a committee under Senator Femi Okurounmu, who was a very big protagonist of the Sovereign National Conference.

So the setting up of the famous 2014 National Conference was as a result of these stories I’ve been telling you, that, let us have an assembly where every Nigerian will be a member, will attend, and express our views on how we want to govern ourselves or how other people will govern us. And the conference was very successful.

So as you rightly said, the main reason why we founded the Southern and Middle-Belt Leaders Forum was to protect the interests of southern and middle belt who were regarded as minorities. But you also know the northerners have 19 governors in a forum. So we have this forum and it has worked very well.

That is the main purpose. We are still meeting. We are protecting the interests of every Nigerian.

We discovered that during the presidency of Muhammadu Buhari, he committed a lot of offences. He breached the Constitution and he didn’t care. He was very nepotistic, developing only the Fulani and the Hausa areas at the expense of the south. And the federal character, which is entrenched In the constitution of Nigeria, he did not obey it. So we decided to go to court. I was the first plaintiff of that case. And people like Ayo Adebanjo, head of Afenifere were there, Fasoranti was number two plaintiff. Both of them represented Afenifere. Then you have John Nwodo, President of Ohaneze then, was there and many others, then Dan Suleiman from the North and others. So that case is in court. They raised preliminary objections that we have no locus standing. The judge ruled against them, against the federal government. So that case is in court, fighting injustice, protecting the constitution of Nigeria and preventing oppression and other things outside the constitution. So that is why we are there.

What is your relationship with stakeholders, probably similar organisations in the North?

As I said, Southern and Middle Belt Forum geographical areas cannot make up Nigeria. So we have to cooperate with other sides of the country at either the same level or group by group. I remember we had a series of meetings with the Northern Elders Forum under the leadership of late Maitama Sule, former minister in the Federal Republic. Then, Prof Ango Abdullahi, former Vice Chancellor of ABU, was their spokesman. He is now the leader. So we have met several times with them over some of these things, particularly, how do we have a new constitution and trying to be a watchdog of the government? So these were the things we’re doing. But I must confess, we have not succeeded so far in that regard. Sometimes due to religion, and ethnicity. We can hardly agree.

Are there plans to meet President Tinubu to air your concerns?

Oh, yes. It’s not our concern; it is the concern of every Nigerian. You see the insecurity going on in the country, we are apolitical; that is we are nonpartisan. We don’t have a political organisation. So because of that, our members are in all the parties. That is why we supported Peter Obi as the presidential candidate. Some others supported Atiku Abubakar, others supported the current President. Now that the elections are over, as I said, we are nonpartisan, so we have come back to our organization. And we have congratulated Mr President, particularly on the day the Supreme Court gave judgment on him in this very house. We congratulated him and as the leader, I appeared on the television, and said that we would like to meet him later with a memorandum. We have submitted the memorandum to him. We are waiting for the date he will call us to meet him. He is our president. We have no other president in this country. As long as he is there, we have to work for the survival of this country. The insecurity, the hunger and other things we have to cooperate with the government. So we intend to see him.

What are your thoughts on Nnamdi Kanu’s release vis-à-vis the release of Bodejo of Miyetti Allah, Igboho, Sowore?

For some time now, I have been involved in this Nnamdi Kanu affair. Once I criticized him for going too far. I accused him that you were in your mother’s womb when the war was being fought. This war took place in 1967 and you were not born at that time. Take it easy. You have every right to demonstrate but don’t kill people, don’t do things that are not good for the country. He abused me back. Because I said in my statement that he should not include Delta State, Edo State and South South region. So they got angry and insulted me. But what we are now talking about is a very serious issue. When he was being tried, The way the terrorism act was being enacted by Buhari, we didn’t like it. It was as if it was targeted against one person. So we criticized that one too.

But later, they said Kanu escaped. But on investigation, we discovered that it was the soldiers in Nigeria who went to attack him in his own home, invaded his own home in Umuahia in Abia and so the man escaped. So luckily enough, both the court, the Federal High Court found that it was true. So it was not a question of Kanu jumping bail. I’m now appealing to the federal government. I wrote an open letter to President Muhammadu Buhari. I said look, free Nnamdi Kanu. We did it before. You’re aware that Asari Dokubo was being tried for the same offence. I gathered our leaders and led them to meet with President Obasanjo, who was in power at that time. So he said, E. K, this matter is in the court, I cannot interfere with the court. So we discussed it. He advised us on what to do. Our leaders went to court. We said we wanted bail first because the man had been there for too long. One of our leaders, Alabo Graham Douglas, he is dead now, provided his title deed. That’s how we were able to free Asari Dokubo. And since the President was aware of what we were doing, that was the end of the case. It was abandoned.

Recently, if not simultaneously, Sunday Igboho in the South-West said he wanted Oduduwa Nation. Some professors joined him. I know some of them, who used to attend meetings with me here. They joined him until he had this problem in the house with the security men, where people were killed. Guns were seized and so on which made him run outside Nigeria to the Republic of Benin. So now he’s back. His mother died, he came to bury his mother. He is in and out of Nigeria, whether in the Republic of Benin or in Nigeria or in Germany. So he’s a free man. But he too was accused of being a terrorist. Anybody who tries to say Nigeria should not exist is a terrorist. That is what the government said.

So when Sowore who publishes Sahara Reporters said there will be revolution, that is not enough to say you are charging a man to court. When you talk of revolution, you saw what happened in Kenya on Wednesday. So when people here just move around and so on, do you know what is called a revolution? When revolution comes, will they stand? So it is a misapplication of the law on people who are protesting injustice and oppression. That is why we said Kanu should be released except you are holding him because he belongs to the Igbo tribe. Because the war has been over for about 50 years now, why detain Kanu? It’s unfair. He should be free.

You described Buhari’s administration as being nepotistic. What’s your reaction to the Tinubu administration’s perceived nepotism?

I think you will also see it in my open letter to President Tinubu. Now let me say something about that. I also call on President Tinubu not to follow Muhammad Buhari’s practice of nepotism and religion and ethnicity. But what we are saying and I accused him of that is that it appears he has started because there is no reason why you give 10 ministerial appointments to the Yorubas and five to the Igbo. It is unfair. Because the Nigeria to which I was born for the past 97 years, the Igbos and the Yorubas were competitors, they were like two brothers fighting among themselves, working together and playing together. When you talk about the intellectual and social angles, the competition was between the Igbos and the Yorubas. But to see today that the Igbos are now being regarded after the war as minority, second-class citizen is a no. So I thought that when the new president comes in, he would reverse some of these things in favour of the entire Nigeria, reversing them and giving them to his own tribe people. It does not solve the problem.

What’s your take on Tinubu’s performance so far?

No I don’t comment on that because I think one year is too early. He met the worst government in Nigeria; that is what he inherited. I told him when they were doing June 12 that there’s nothing to celebrate. What did Buhari’s government ever produce? And then because you are APC and you will continue with his programme, with his policy, then you will find it difficult. So as far as I’m concerned, it will not be difficult for the President to correct some of the numerous mistakes or misadministration of Buhari. So I am saying that, for me, I won’t assess him. He has a lot he is doing now. For instance, I will comment on only one thing, this issue of oil subsidy.

When Jonathan removed it on January 1, 2012, it was the same Tinubu, Atiku and others that were dancing, kicking against Jonathan and wanted Jonathan’s administration to come down. We had to support Jonathan. When they issue press statements, we would issue the next day, until Jonathan had to amend the situation and restore the subsidy.

Then Buhari, in their campaign, APC said that the subsidy would be removed. So what Tinubu is doing is not different from what Atiku wanted to do, it’s not different from what Obi wanted to do. They all wanted to remove the oil subsidy. What tactics, how do we do it, is what they didn’t know. One would have expected that President Tinubu, who had been an administrator, who had been a governor for eight years, who had played politics as a Senator, knew very well that every action he takes, there’ll be consequences. So he should have asked himself, if I remove the oil subsidy, what will happen? Will it affect the living standards of the people or not? If he did that homework, he could have prepared, like buying buses, providing every other thing. So immediately the announcement is made, they step in to correct whatever consequences that follow. So that was a bold step he took.

But since he did not put it in his speech, it shows clearly that they didn’t plan for it. Out of exuberance, the man decided to announce it. Before he got back to his home in Abuja here, prices had changed. NNPC had announced new prices for fuel. So Nigerians are suffering. I think that is the only thing I wanted to comment on. He was bold, courageous in removing it. But what I’m saying is that Nigerian politicians should be more honest, and should not say another government, another party, is an evil organisation. There must be a meeting place of understanding one another. Otherwise, the way they criticised Jonathan’s government and wanted to bring the government down because of the subsidy removal, one would have expected that he would know what would be involved. If he himself wanted to remove it now, he should have prepared for it. That’s the only thing I will talk about. If God spares our lives before the end of this year, come again I will then give you my thoughts about his government.

What are your thoughts about state police, minimum wage?

About state police, I believe in the federal system of government and once you talk about true federalism, you’re talking about state police. Section 5 (1) makes the president of Nigeria the ruler of the whole country but Section 5 (2) says that the states are autonomous. Section 5 (2) says they are not subsidiaries. The governor himself is the Chief Security Officer of his state, which they are not doing. I agree because they haven’t got the weapons or anything to do it, but they have never tried enough. Every day, you see them in Abuja. They should stay with their own people. In my book, I mentioned the case when I was reading about the case of a young man, a medical doctor. He was sitting down in his parlour with his two children and wife. When they sighted the kidnappers, the man ran to the police station to call the police. By the time he came with the police, they had carried his wife and the two children away.

They asked for a specific amount of money to be paid to them. That money was paid. So they returned the two children. But they were still demanding more. But they later called the man, that he should go to the roadside and pick up the body of his wife. Could you imagine that coincidentally, I saw the governor of that state with President Buhari in Daura? He was laughing and doing everything. In America this type of thing would keep the whole country at alert. But it means nothing here. What I’m saying, the governors should stay at home. Stay in their states, study their people, hold meetings with them from time to time.

In a federal system, not a unitary system, one police cannot do it alone. And if we have copied the American type of constitution, every county, there are police, even universities have their own police. So I believe that the governor is the chief security officer of his state, he must have his own police. So I believe in state police. But some of these arrogant politicians, governors may use them to punish their opponents. That is the fear everybody has, that they will use the police during the election. But what is more important is our own daily life before we talk about special occasions. They’re far better things that a police will do that will not be pleasant to some of our people.

Then the other one you mentioned – minimum wage. I don’t want to talk about minimum wage because it’s a very delicate issue. Because the stage they have reached now, one cannot just come in. One said N62,000, the other one said N250,000. What will I say? I think what is required is more discussion, more consultation and it shouldn’t be done in a hurry because the workers want to go on strike today. Something must be done. When they are not going on strike, you slow down. No. This matter should be given attention.

At 97, why are you still very much passionate about Nigeria?

I’m very passionate about Nigeria because it’s my country. I was born into it. And I’ve always believed that Nigeria could have done better. The Nigeria I was born into, even 50 or 60 years ago, we were producing vehicles, Volkswagen, Peugeot in Kaduna and trucks in Bauchi and so on. So today we cannot even reproduce a bicycle. What has gone wrong? All the textiles mills in the north are gone. We used to produce enough cotton that was enough to provide for the welfare of the people in the north. But immediately oil came, everybody abandoned that. You can imagine a disgraceful gathering of top officers, saying they have come to collect monthly allocation. So imagine a place like Bayelsa State which produces about one fifth of oil in this country. You say they are one of the poorest states in Nigeria because they’re not able to generate internal revenue. I think something is wrong with this country.

Every state, whether you are in the north, you are in the south, fend for yourself. And that’s what the regions in those days, the eastern region, northern region, Western Region, Midwest region. This is what they did. The governors were almost autonomous. They don’t sit down waiting for Abuja.

You don’t need to see Mr President even in one year, except during meetings. Despite how close the New York governor is to the White House in Washington DC, they don’t meet. So I think we have a great country. A country with vast human resources. A country with natural resources. A country with various tribes where nobody can dominate the other one. So that’s why I’m very passionate about my country. I think with a good leader with impeccable character, Nigeria will move forward. We are still waiting for that.

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