Following the recent Sallah homage paid to former President Muhammadu Buhari by former Vice President, Atiku Abubakar and other Northern elite, human rights crusader and public commentator, Senator Shehu Sani, has disclosed how Atiku, the presidential candidate of the Peoples Democratic Party ((PDP) in 2019 and 2023 respectively and his cohort plan to oust President Bola Ahmed Tinubu from the Aso Rock Presidential Villa in 2027.

In this exclusive interview with Sunday Sun in Abuja, Sani said that Atiku and his co-travellers, are planning to capitalise on the relocation of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) offices to Lagos; the appointments of many people from the South-western part of the country, and the issue of insecurity which has not been solved in the Northern part of Nigeria to unseat Tinubu in 2027.

According to Sani, who represented Kaduna Central Senatorial District in the 8^th Senate, “these are all fundamental issues which they are going to take very seriously.”

Sani also disclosed that Atiku and his gang of politicians are trying to present Tinubu as a bad case, as an ethnicist, regionalist, a person who betrayed Northern Nigeria, as a man who was voted by the North, but serving his people and the need for Northerners to wake up and evict him out of power.

Sani said: “It is their strategy. And they want to do that by making sure that that idea is sold to the Northern masses and then, from there, they seize power.”

Sani, however, advised Atiku to allow Tinubu, a Southerner, to finish the eight years tenure of the South before power returns to the North in 2031, saying that he believes that Atiku should consider the unity, the peace of the country that he has so much worked hard to deliver and allow the South to finish their eight years.

You live in Nigeria and have seen the state of the nation. Every Nigerian is crying of hardship. How do you feel about this?

It is unfortunate that this is the situation we find ourselves as a country today. Our problem that we ought to have solved about 10 years ago, this is the situation we have found ourselves. The problem we are facing today is because the leadership of the past refused to do what they ought to do. Most of the reforms embarked upon by this administration could have been earlier implemented by past government. The Buhari administration was the best opportunity to implement all these far-reaching economic reforms that could have reset Nigeria’s economy and reconfigure’s Nigeria’s politics. The promises made by the ruling APC in 2014 were simply abandoned. Issues like the building of refineries in six geopolitical zones, the improvement on the value of the naira, the creation of employment opportunities that were promised to people and other issues such as provision of security in the country – I can remember President Buhari was in Chatham House before he became president, where he said he was going to lead from the front. Buhari met a country on the grips of terrorism, by the time he left; it was on the grips of terrorism and banditry and secessionists agitation. So, I can say that the situation we find ourselves today is as a result of what we refused to do yesterday or what we did wrongly yesterday, so we are today paying the price for it.

Why are you singling out the Buhari administration? Jonathan was there, Yar’Adua was there, Obasanjo was there since the advent of the Fourth Republic?

Yeah, there is no way to have singled out the Buhari administration, but from what I know, from 1999 till 2015, the PDP was blamed for all the ills of the country and it is unfortunate that when the APC came to power in 2015, Nigerians expected change, they expected progress, they expected peace, they expected prosperity, they expected security because of the experience of President Muhammadu Buhari and his history. But that became our utmost failure. So, it is a fact that the 25 years of Nigeria’s democracy was largely wasted by the ruling political elite and they have not been able to use the opportunity of democracy to improve the lives of our people, to protect our country and to advance our economy and to give this country a sense of direction. They have not been able to do that.

What is the alternative?

The alternative is the situation which we are in today and for President Bola Tinubu to do things differently. Of course, we have been doing the same thing for over a long period of time. He must take the bold step of restructuring this country and of permanently resetting Nigeria’s economy to a sound footing. The idea of pumping money, dollars to support Nigeria’s naira or pumping naira to protect Nigeria’s oil market, I think we all have to do things differently and we should not go into borrowing spree that will strangulate Nigeria’s finances. And our transaction, not only with the World Bank and IMF, but even with China, has to be done intelligently and that will meet the needs, the demands and the interests of our people around the country.

Is there anything giving you hope that the current hardship will end anytime soon?

Well, it is those that are the drivers of the economy that will be able to predict that. For now, they told us, they told the country that the inconveniences we are facing today, the discomfort, are the inconveniences of the construction site. And you cannot assess a building when it is under construction. It has to be done. Despite the criticisms that trailed the economic reforms of Tinubu, if people started seeing the results in the next one year, the view of the people will change, but it comes with a lot of pains. The economic reforms in Brazil, in Argentina, in Malaysia and Indonesia and even in Britain, brought a lot of pains. It is a gambling you are taking, but when at the end of the day things get better and people’s lives and livelihood get improved and the nation is protected, there will be a change of opinion as far as Nigerians are concerned.

What do you think worsened the hardship situation in the country because it was clear things were not well under Buhari, but got worse under Tinubu. What and what do you think are responsible and how can they be ameliorated?

Well, under Buhari, we were simply living a borrowed time because we were buying ourselves out of the problem and we were pumping money to defer the problem. And now, the problem falls on the head of President Tinubu. If we are pumping dollar to support our naira, there will be a time to which we don’t have the dollar to support our naira. If we are pumping our naira to support oil prices, there will be a time there will be no naira to support oil prices. So, I can tell you that the joy we had during that of Buhari, is a joy of a man who is waiting to be slaughtered. And the pains we are having today, hopefully, should be the pain of a person that is waiting to have a better life.

Few days ago, Atiku Abubakar, a former vice president and two-time presidential candidate of the PDP and others, visited former President Muhammadu Buhari in Daura, which you saw as a plot to unseat Tinubu in 2027. Why do you think it was not a friendly and brotherly visit, but one targeted at stopping Tinubu in 2027?

You see, it is a tradition that each time there is Sallah celebration, people pay homage to former leaders. You pay homage to former leaders so that you get the necessary blessings from them, but in the case of what has happened recently, the fact of the matter is that Northern political leaders are regrouping and their focal point is Buhari. They still want to use Buhari to whip up Northern regional sentiment as it was done in the CPC days and garner the votes they can in order to eject Tinubu out of power.

There is no Northern leader today that can serve as a rallying point. He was the one who was a former president and he used to have a fanatical following. So, what they are trying to do is to present Tinubu as a bad case, as an ethnicist, as a regionalist, as a person who betrayed Northern Nigeria, as a man who was voted by the North, but he is serving his own people and the need for Northerners to wake up and evict him out of power. It is their strategy. And they want to do that by making sure that that idea is sold to the Northern masses and then, from there, they seize power. But I have to draw the attention to two facts – first of all, Buhari was a colossal failure. He has led this country for eight years and he left the North worse than he met it and the treasury of the country was looted under him; the economy was pillaged under him and the nation was plundered and terrorism and banditry was at the highest peak under Buhari administration.

Under Jonathan we all know that Chibok was attacked and students were abducted, but what happened under Buhari? Under Buhari, Kaduna alone, Greenfield University was attacked. Over 200 students were kidnapped. Their parents had to sell everything they had in order to get their loved ones out of captivity.

Bethel Baptist High School was attacked, Federal School of Agric Mechanization was attacked in Kaduna, Nigerian Defence Academy was attacked in Kaduna, Polytechnic Gidan Waya was attacked, slaughtering of farmers became a daily affair under Buhari; Federal Government Girls College, Yauri was attacked. Female students were in the hands of terrorists for over two years; Boko Haram and ISIS became more audacious and despite all that, over four trillion was spent on defence and security under Buhari. Now, is that the person that the North should go back to make a rallying point? I think we should ask them. At a point under Buhari, all the security and defence apparatus of the country were headed by Northerners. So, the North got power and wasted it and what does it want to do with it? Secondly, Buhari has finished his eight years in power and we have a Southerner who is going to be … why is the North in a hurry? And my own belief is that for now, there should be all efforts to ensure that policies and programmes of this administration provide the necessary developmental needs of people over the North. When Buhari was in power, there was no serious Southerner that came to challenge him for his eight years. Now, is that how we are going to do? This country should take seriously, the principle of rotation of power.

Nigeria is a fragile country. One part of the country cannot continue to dominate political power forever. We must know that when power circulates, issues are solved. Before Jonathan became president, there was agitation in the Niger Delta, but as you produced a president from that part of the country, the problems have virtually reduced to nothing. So, the Northern political elite are becoming more desperate and they want to rally behind Buhari to resurrect him and to launder him and to put him in the front to go and make sure that he leads a war that will remove Tinubu out of power.

Would you say it was for the same reason that Atiku visited former Presidents Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida and Abdulsalami Abubakar?

Atiku is a nice person and in 2023, I supported him; he is a fighter, he is a democrat, one that has always stood in the defence of freedom and has always been a principled man. And I believe Atiku and Asiwaju, they come from the same political pedigree of Shehu Musa Yar’Adua and Shehu Musa Yar’Adua was a person I was in the same prison with before he died.

So, they came from the same political family and I can say that in that respect, they are the same. He can visit anybody he wants to visit, but I have to pre-empt the very fact that Buhari could be used against Tinubu in 2027.

By implication, does that mean that El-Rufai and Atiku are working together because El-Rufai was also in Daura during the period?

Well, I don’t know whether they are working together or not, but I know that there will be a lot of realignment of forces and the ace, the card that will be played by the North is that of bringing all northerners together and then, getting an alliance with a section of the country other than the Southwest and then, see how that can garner votes to remove Tinubu out of power because in the equation of the North, out of the eight million votes which Tinubu has gotten, five million comes from Northern Nigeria. So, they want to see how they can pull off these votes from him and there are a lot of issues which they are going to put forward in the build-up to the 2027 campaign. And they are going to use so many issues like the shifting of the CBN offices to Lagos; like the issues of appointments of many people from the South-western part of Nigeria; like the issue of insecurity which has not been solved in Northern part of Nigeria; these are all fundamental issues which they are going to take very seriously.

You said on social media that if the Daura visit is a Sallah homage, that is okay. If it is a political mission, it is like trekking in the Sahara. Does it mean that you don’t see them succeeding in this their new found love or endeavour?

My posting on X is a message I sent. I said clearly, if they are going there on Sallah homage, there is no problem with that. But if they are conceiving the idea of using Buhari, they are going to fail because the masses of the North have suffered so much under him and that it is immoral to bring a man who has unleashed so much hardship on people, under whose hands the nation’s treasury was looted and he did nothing about it. So, you cannot bring that kind of person and say you want to reform.

With your sound knowledge of how things work in Nigeria politically, do you foresee Atiku becoming president of Nigeria someday?

Well, Atiku can be president of Nigeria. It is possible to be after the South has finished their eight-year term and I believe it will be in his best interest for him to look at the realities that are today and then, think of the country rather than his ambition. He is a man of experience, one who has been through a very long period of Nigeria’s journey. And I believe that his experience will help the country and help him to be able to address the problems that we face today or in the future. But if at this juncture, the North is thinking of taking over power in 2027, then, it is going to unsettle Nigeria’s political calculation. And the North will have a clean slate after the South has finished their eight years in power and it is in the interest of the North to say that we have waited behind and we have allowed you to finish your term, it is our turn to take over. And going by the fact that it is the vote of the North that delivered most of the votes that brought Tinubu to power, he would abide by that. The North voted for Obasanjo and when Obasanjo was going, he returned power to Northern Nigeria and the attempt to breach the rotation formula in 2015, caused the PDP to be out of power. So, to me, I believe that Atiku can be president, but it is after the South has finished their eight years.

Atiku is 77 now and at that time, he will be 84. Don’t you rather think Atiku should just forget about this ambition and focus on his business?

Even at 84, which business is an 84-year-old man going to do? So, if we are going to look at the issue of age, look at the two people contesting the presidency of the United States, both Biden and Trump. These are all old men. Even the president of Tunisia is an old man, almost in his 80s. The president of Equatorial Guinea, he is an old man, so he still has something to deliver. But I believe that he should consider the unity, the peace of the country that he has so much worked hard to deliver and allow the South to finish their eight years.

Do you nurse any regret over the loss of your party, the PDP, in 2023 at the centre?

Well, it is not the fault of anyone, but the PDP itself because it is the PDP that defeated the PDP.

What do you mean by that?

NNPP is a product of the PDP; the Labour Party is a product of the PDP and the G5 are all products of the PDP. So, PDP divided itself into four and they wanted to confront one enemy. Who are the three? Obi is from PDP, Kwankwaso is from PDP, Wike and other G5 are all from PDP. So, a divided house led to the fall of PDP out of power and I believe that that should be a lesson.

So, in your calculation, these are the things that the party did wrongly that caused the PDP victory in that election?

Yeah. If you look at Tinubu’s eight million votes, if you put Atiku’s 6.7 and Obi’s 6.1, the two votes were enough to defeat Tinubu. And if you add that of one point something of the NNPP, it is even far beyond. So, the greatest mistake of the PDP was the loss of Peter Obi, not the G5.

Do you see them unifying, coming together in 2027 to take the lead and maybe, take Tinubu out of power? Is it possible?

Well, they will try.

But they won’t succeed?

But they will hardly succeed because PDP now is on clutches…

(Cuts in) Not in coma?

On the very fact that the G5 are still holding a section of the territory and the main party is holding a section of the territory. So, they are insurgents that are in that party, holding territories and how that party can unite is only a case of only tomorrow can answer. And if care is not taken, I may not be wrong to say that PDP may end up without a candidate for the 2027 general election.

Some have been wondering why the party has not been able to sanction Nyesom Wike who is in PDP, holding position in the government of President Tinubu, whereas the PDP did not enter into a Government of National Unity with the APC. What is happening?

Well, the organ that would have sanctioned him is also divided. He controls part of the organ and the main party controls part of the organ. So, for you to have an expulsion or discipline, there must be unanimity, which of course, is not going to be and there is a likelihood that the PDP will go limping up till 2027 as things are going on now.

Back home in Kaduna, banditry is not abating. You were eloquent in crying out against banditry in the state under El-Rufai. But this has unfortunately continued under Governor Uba Sani. How do you feel under this situation that people are massacred, killed every day?

The difference between Uba Sani’s government and El-Rufai’s government is that there is more responsiveness now when it comes to the issue of banditry. The killings and kidnapping are still going on, but now, you have a governor who will at least, visit the scene, console with the family, identify with them and do the best he can. But that was not the case.

That was not the case in the past where the governor speaks with arrogance and doesn’t care and there is a part of the state that he treats with contempt. Under the Buhari administration, the killings, the burnings, the arsons, the rape in Southern Kaduna were meant with contempt and people don’t care. Both the governor of that state at that time and the president didn’t care. Have you ever seen Buhari visiting Southern Kaduna to commiserate with the victims, even to fly by helicopter? How many minutes from Abuja to Southern Kaduna? Less than five minutes. Southern Kaduna shares the same border with Abuja for your information. But this person can fly to all parts of the world and if you ask him to fly out of Abuja, he has to fly through Southern Kaduna. So, he never cared and today, you have a governor who can reach out to the people in Southern Kaduna and he can talk to their leaders and console the victim. Look at the attack in Koriga School that happened. It just lasted within seven, eight, ten days and the hostages were freed. This has never happened in Kaduna. When the kidnapping happened in the Federal School of Agric Mechanization, the students were in the hands of bandits for over three months; when it happened in Greenfield University, the students were in the hands of bandits for over two months; when it happened in Baptist High School, the students were in the hands of bandits for over a year. So, how do you compare? You can see that there is a clear difference between where we are coming from and where we are today?

Why was the situation like that under El-Rufai?

He just doesn’t care and he simply believes in using religion to divide the people of the state for his own political…. His government is one of the worst governments we have had in the history of Kaduna State, who has not led with justice, with fairness and with equity. And I think this is very important, if people are suffering, even if people are being victimised by bandits, when they see a leader that is responsive and that responds to them, they will feel encouraged that at least, there will be light at the end of the day (tunnel). So, the situation worsened under the El-Rufai administration because the governor did not take that as a major priority.

Have you in any way advised the leaders of the state, both past and current one, on how to save the situation?

The last administration was almost fighting everybody. El-Rufai’s government was fighting religious clerics, Christian religious clerics, was fighting people of Southern Kaduna, it was fighting civil servants, it was fighting Labour, it was fighting teachers, it was fighting politicians, it was fighting traditional rulers, it was fighting almost everybody. So, it was a belligerent, combative, arrogant and irresponsible government that we have had for eight years from 2015 to 2023. There was no way we could advise him because we and him drew a battle line and we fought for eight years. And he persecuted me for those eight years. He used all sorts of strategies and tactics and all sorts of thuggish ways.

But he didn’t demolish your house…?

Nothing stopped him from doing that. Which one is better? To demolish your house or to try to frame you with murder? Is it not better to demolish your house? So, this is what he has done. My house was attacked; my office was attacked by thugs. For such a person, there is nothing that person has not done on me, investigating my academic credentials, trying to frame me up for murder and then, at a certain time we were having a press conference, armed thugs were sent to the Nigeria Union of Journalists in Kaduna. I believe one of these persons will read this interview. In 2017, journalists were injured, the whole place was vandalised by thugs because we had a rallying point to oppose his administration. A man who has sacked over 40, 50,000 people out of their jobs, demolished houses and he went and secured a loan that destroyed the economy of the state, he left the state with abandoned projects everywhere – road abandoned, bridges abandoned, markets abandoned; we have shopping malls everywhere of people who we don’t know who are the owners. This is the legacy we have. We have reached a point today in our state where we can’t pay salaries of our staff or civil servants because we have to pay. That money was borrowed when the exchange rate was N400, but now, we have to pay, the exchange rate is N1,500. So, what becomes….? We are not an oil-producing state.

But have you advised the incumbent governor on how to go about it?

Well, I believe he has started on a good note in the sense that the most important thing within our state is reconciliation. He has reached out to the people of Southern Kaduna and united them with the people of Northern Kaduna and he has been able to open his doors for people to come and meet him and discuss with him. And it is not about my personal advice, but the fact that for the first time, after eight years, we are having a governor in which groups, organizations, women groups, traders, politicians, businessmen, and traditional rulers, are all going and having access to him. This is unheard of from 2015 to 2023.

You were in the Senate during the 8^th National Assembly. How would you assess your colleagues in the upper chamber now under Senate President Godswill Akpabio?

Saraki was the best Senate President we have ever had.

Why Sir?

For the fact that he held the executive to account and that for the first time, a National Assembly was viewed with integrity and we maintained the independence and sanctity of the National Assembly, that is, the Parliament. Godswill Akpabio’s Senate is far, far below the standard of Saraki’s Senate, but it is far ahead of Lawan’s Senate. Lawan’s Senate was rubber stamp Senate because part of the problems which we have now, they plunged Nigeria into; the fact that the Senate at that time failed to perform its duty. It was approving everything of Buhari, endorsing everything of Buhari and then, they led us to where we are today. Most of the revelations that are coming now about how this country was destroyed, the question you will ask is, where was the National Assembly from 2019 till 2023?

Again, there are debates over state creation, particularly for the Southeast and the amendment of the constitution. As a former lawmaker, what merit do you give to the ongoing debate at the National Assembly?

I think we need to know where we want to go. We need to also tell ourselves the truth about where we should be. First of all, if we are talking about Nigeria’s future, a restructure, we cannot be talking about creating states. A reconfigured Nigeria will lead to dissolution of states, at least, we have six regions and then, from there, regions will be able to work out policies and programmes and generating revenue to sustain them. And if we are going to do that, I don’t think the issue of state creation should be a topic.

But if we are not going to go back into six regional arrangements, it is fair and just that the Southeast will be equalised with other zones and be given a state that they need if that will bring development to that part of the country. That part of the country has suffered a lot of injustice for a problem that is not theirs and they are carrying a historical stigma which is passing from parents to children and to grandchildren and that is a very dangerous thing for the unity of the country. (Sunday Sun)

Update news