In this interview monitored on ARISE Television, former Secretary to the government of the Federation, Babachir Lawal speaks on President Bola Tinubu’s one year in office among other issues.

Your impression of President Tinubu one year in office

I relocated to my village to look after my cows, sheep and goats. Then I tried to put Nigeria out of my mind because right from the onset, I didn’t expect much from the government seeing the manner in which they appropriated power seeing their justification. I chose not to develop hypertension for people that have no interest in the general welfare of Nigerians. So, I decided to leave for my village to avoid hearing what is going on in Abuja.

But the president was your friends and ally until you broke ranks and supported Peter Obi, is it because you were defeated?

I don’t think that is a charitable way to put it. I’ve said it time without number that I did not believe they won this election. I’ve said it before the election that they were not going to win the election. So I did not consider myself or the people I supported. I was not involved in any power game that would lose. If I was interested in power, I would have stopped the Tinubu ticket. So don’t consider that we lost, in fact, even the reasons why I took the position that I took, I was confident that I have been justified for the I position I took because all I said happened even with the Muslim- Muslim ticket. So I have been vindicated and other things have been exposed in the process of their quest to grab power, as he said run with it; it has exposed the strengths or weaknesses of the various segments of the Nigerian society. It was the fact that they knew they were not going to win in a free and fair election that had to go wrong.

What exactly are you talking about?

All broke all the known rules of democracy of the electoral processes to get to power, that is what I mean, they went wrong. Because they were scared that if every Nigerian was allowed to go and cast their ballot and INEC announced results as they said, there is no way Bola would have been the president. But he had to be president and the powers that be around him. Mostly people that had other motives, rather than to serve Nigeria. They coalesce around him, and handed the power to him whether we like it or not.

Your response to US’s government report that the 2023 elections was fair and square?

What do you expect them to say? You see, in national politics most times, you want your own man there. You want somebody you can tweak to do you bids. This government, a lot of them, a lot of the ministers for example are residents from the United States of America, most of their families are there; some I understand even have dual citizenship, so it will serve America’s interests very well if such people take over Nigeria. So what would expect America to do?

As SGF, how can ministers under Tinubu in one year be assessed, what parameters?

Well, I wasn’t involved in appointment of ministers under Buhari. Though I was influential enough to put in one or two, but I didn’t have much to say of who becomes the Minister.

It is up to the president to choose the people he thinks will deliver on the mandate. Who would deliver in his own view of what he considers the government should do. So you are known by the friends you keep. So this government has assembled a cabinet that (quoting someone) were designed to practise Emilokan economics. It’s my turn economics. He said it was his turn and he did what he did because it was his turn. He wanted to be president because it was his turn, not necessarily because he wanted to serve Nigerians or because he had knowledge of what he was going to do. It was just a sense of entitlement. And so, with such mindset, he therefore assembles a cabinet of like minds. And that’s where we are today. If you find ourselves in a ministry, it is your turn, it’s not Nigeria’s turn. it’s not the turn of the poor masses. So it’s a self-centred government, a government of individual interests.

How does the Office of the Secretary to the government of the Federation assess ministers

The secretary to the government of the Federation’s office is the secretary for political appointees. So depending on who the president is, or depending on who the secretary to the government is, ideally, the secretary to the government, they called me head boy. Yes to make sure ministers do their jobs, make sure they behave properly and so on. And so forth. That’s our time. However, over the years, this office of Secretary to the government has attracted different people depending on their background, their capabilities. So when they find themselves there, they just want to manage the crumbs, they don’t want to annoy anybody, they don’t want to ruffle feathers, so that they are not kicked out. Some on account of their relationship with the president prior to being in government to have more influence on the president, the Cabinet and the policies of governments; so it’s a whole basket of all sorts of things.

There seems to be clashes between lines of duty…

I have given a background on what happened, it depends on the character and capabilities of persons involved. In my own case, I had come into the government through a background that the president knew very well. I knew the family, everybody there knows me. So I was almost like one of the family. Nobody could intimidate me. I didn’t have initially for example, during the retreat of the ministers, you know, because the Chief of Staff wrote the speech, so on and so forth. The President in the closing remarks, he did mention something, as traditional in a government like this, all ministers report and communicate with me through the Chief of Staff. Prior governments coordinated ministers and ministers communicate with the president but in our own time, the President said a different thing. I heard it but I didn’t listen to it, I didn’t practise it. And I would take my memos directly to him.

And you didn’t have clash with late Abba Kyari?

I am somebody that he wouldn’t want to have a clash with. However, there were some underground moves, some people didn’t like that, and one time the President did raise the matter with me, why are you. I said… I’m the secretary to the government. The Constitution says that all constitutional commissions for example, which the President is the chair, I’m the secretary to the government, for example, I’m the secretary to national security council which means I have the highest clearance at that level. Technically, I should be sitting here in this meeting reminding you certain things sir, so I’m not supposed to pass through a political appointee. I am a constitutional appointee and secretary to the government. And my boss would just smile, he would just let be, and that’s how it is. If you don’t have that type of relationship, prior to appointment, you would just sit in the office and somebody else will cover your duty and because you don’t want to lose even the small crumbs you are getting, you just manage the humiliation, after all, when you go out and buy a big Agbada, people think you are a big man.

Now the fuel subsidy policy, FX floating, others

Almost every commentator that expresses Nigeria’s current problems will trace it to that event. I’ve read so many people that I respect. Of course, there are paid goons whose interest are there. You see, government is collegiate because no one man can do it all, that is why the Constitution read all four ministers of different agencies. I would have thought that a policy like this (it doesn’t matter where it originated from). lt would have originated from the Minister of planning, or Minister of Finance or probably Central Bank governor or vice president who is the vice chairman of the Economic Council, or something like that. A memo that emanates from such similar organisations to Executive Council, through the president, they would debate it, analyse it, and have a holistic view of it. Consequences will arise, it’s the duty of the government to find ways of mitigating those consequences if they are negative. Also, if the consequences were going to be positive on this system, it is the duty of government to find ways of enhancing those positive consequences of the system to maximise the returns on it. At the time this policy was taken, none of such people were in place.

Could it be that he had a technical team before coming to power in May 29? Some people say he was consulting technocrats before his inauguration, though there was no Transition committee…

Yes, he didn’t have that. I always say this, I’m sorry to say this but I repeat it, the personality of Bola Tinubu is that, ‘I know it all’, it’s his character flaw. He thinks he’s smart. He thinks he is intelligent. They call him ‘master strategist’. And from my own personal knowledge, that was what drove that possibility, that outcome. Now, it has shown that he has failed in his evaluation of his own capabilities, taking such huge decisions. If we had that competence, if this cabinet has the competence, even after he has done that, they have had sufficient time to work out mitigating strategies but if they had the inclination to do it, we have not seen the consequences of that mitigating strategies.

Former Governor El Rufai said government is still paying fuel subsidy and it’s running close to about N600 billion per month and people are wondering, so what was the subsidy removal all about?

I for one, for example, didn’t see where the subsidy was, to start with. I didn’t.

But do you think that the government is still paying subsidy?

I told you I relocated to my village to avoid such stories

But for someone like Nasir, el Rufai to say such…

If we take his words for it, that means, you believe what he says. The presidency hasn’t really fully denied that.

But who is paying and who is collecting the subsidy now? Who is he paying the subsidy to? Who is collecting the money? If the government is paying subsidy, there must be somebody who is collecting the money and for what? And what are the parameters that will determine the so called subsidy? I don’t know.

Nigerians are crying that they are being overburdened. Could it be that President Tinubu is not listening to his cabinet?

Or maybe the cabinet is not talking to him.

You think so, but they just had the marathon for executive council meeting some days ago . . .

Sometimes, I prefer to use my own self illustration. This matter was going on all over the place during our own time.

They were putting pressure on the President that they must remove subsidies, they must allow the free float of the Naira. At the burial of Audu Ogbe’s mother, in the church service, the minister next to me, showed me a newsflash that the Vice President said that oil will be sold at N270 and some other info like the regulation on the Naira. So the minister showed it to me if I knew about it, I said I don’t know anything about it. So when I came back, I went to the President, I said, what is this about the regulated Naira? He said no. And I asked, where did this come from? He said he would find out.

The Vice President was the chairman of the Economic Council, and there’s one thing about the Economic Council, after some time, I stopped attending the council meeting because I didn’t see value in it, because all they do there, when they come there, they would assemble in Abuja, meeting in one of the governor’s house, they come there with shopping list with some complaints, like the Federal Government is sitting on state revenue or doing this with our money, please get our money out for us and things like that. So when we go to such, is more about more revenue for the state. So I suspected them, and the VP was their chairman, a gentleman; he has a tendency of being soft with the governors. So I took my time. After some time, we ran into my friend, Okorocha, the then chairman of the Progressive Governors Forum. We were just gisting, he said to me, ‘we are friends, we must regulate it, and this fuel subsidy, we must remove it’. Okorocha was able to convince me that it’s worthwhile.

When I was coming here, I did some rough calculations. We are now getting 1.2, 1. 3 million barrels per day, an average of $82 per barrel. That will give you close to $3 billion dollars per month. That is government money which they repatriate through the CBN. And when you go to exchange that money in Naira, so the higher the value of dollar, the more money they have to share. So the governors go home with more billions and trillions, feeling much happier.

I told the President, this is the scenario, the more naira we have per dollar, the more money they have to share. And we spend in naira. The more we have to spend. The Nigeria’s problem is how to make sure this money is spent in a manner that boosts the economy, in a manner that mitigates the effects of the high exchange rate? Abacha did it and set up PTF and we saw the results, people were happy, things were moving fine. SURE-P also under Goodluck Jonathan did the same thing, so it is what you do with the extra revenue in terms of Naira that matters; if you give it to the governors, I suspect, what they’ll simply do is to change it to dollars. They don’t have the mindset of being part of the total economy.

But the governors said it’s their money, they choose to do with it whatever they like

That is it! They don’t seem to think that they are part of the solution to the economic problems of Nigeria. The governors don’t think so. They share money, It’s their own money.

Your view about 48 man cabinet. This is the largest in terms of governance system in Nigeria since 1960, yet people are complaining that they are not feeling the effect of this… the President thinks a larger cabinet would make people feel his impact more…

It is the Emilokan effect.

What do you mean by that?

It’s my turn. It is not for me to share with anybody, it is my turn. The 48 ministers were chosen because of the Emilokan philosophy, so it’s my turn. So if I find myself as a Minister of Humanitarian Affairs, I will do what she did, it’s my turn. The money comes in, it’s my turn. Everybody is doing it.

President actually has to discipline them especially during Cabinet meetings . . .

Is not the President the architect of Emilokan?

Are you accusing the President of doing the same thing? Is that what you are saying?

The President brought up the issue of calling them to order and he has not called them to order, meanwhile, the buck stops on his desk. And he is the architect of Emilokan. He said it his turn and he goes there with the Philosophy, appoints people, only him knows the criteria. Ministers, some of them till today, we have not seen them on television, who have not seen them on newspapers. There was one platform where they said the Minister of Youths do not have a Twitter (Now X) handle. A youth ministry. And there are so many ministers we don’t know what they are doing. Even the one in the papers every day, defending government policies every day, we don’t hear them.

Suddenly, we are taking $500 million loan to support the government, it is not discussed because they don’t tell us in advance. It should be in the public domain, people will discuss the pros and cons, build a consensus before you go into it, but everything looks like secret society. During our time, the Minister of finance, Mrs. Kemi was talking every now and then, telling us what is happening around our national finances, explaining what the government is doing and why they are doing what they were doing, why the government is not doing what. Even the former Minister of Planning, Udoma Udoma, was talking, even the minister of Education, everybody was talking. Nigerians were seeing what the government was doing.

Could it be that government is not talking?

They don’t want to be exposed. Just Keep quiet, if you talk, you open yourself to public scrutiny.

Over view of the renewed hope agenda? A reality or a mirage?

At what time did this Renewed Hope come? After the election? So it was not an election, it was just an afterthought of renewed hope. What was it that we were not told? What are the metrics by which we judge his success? During the campaign, their manifesto contains a lot. What promises did they make to us and how can we hold them accountable because we don’t know it ab initio, we don’t have the metrics to judge them. So we don’t know, it’s just their thing.

The president says he has been going abroad and we bring in lots of foreign direct investments…

Yes, he has been bringing foreign direct investments which people denied. The people say it is not so. We can now go to Dubai… Dubai said they’re not aware of such. Now, we will do this, we are not aware. It’s a government of conjure…

But President Tinubu is seen as a master strategist, could it be that the president was overwhelmed in government?

I have a personal view on this. Since I’ve known him, I’ve known his ambitions. I have come to the conclusion that he was more interested in power than in what to do with the power when he eventually gets it; now he has got it, but he doesn’t know what to do with it. It never occurred to me on what to do with power.

You mentioned Lagos. I used to laugh at them in those days when he was governor. I say Lagos would do a local government football competition, they will not be shy calling it a World Cup. Because their mindset, their world view is just around that Lagos, one tribe, one religion. People by their nature are hierarchical in leadership style, buck stops there, no body falls in line, that’s Yoruba culture, there are no two bosses. The boss says it, it’s done. When it comes into national issues where over 200 million people, with their challenges, everybody with his ambition on local issues in the system, no matter how good you are, in their minds, because you are not their man, they will not allow you to perform. He got into this system and surrounded himself with Emilokan people. And he’s out of his control.

But the Vice President is not an Emilokan man, that his closest advisors…

We call it spare tyre. The vice has no defined rules, it’s what the president decides…

When it comes to national scene where everybody with his own challenges, with his own ambition, everybody will disown local issues. We put in a system in which no matter how good you are, there are so people from the beginning will knock up their minds because you are not there.

Why do you prefer a northerner in 2027?

Well, politics is dynamic, it’s not static. And as the saying goes, a day can be a century in politics. Yesterday and today, there can be systematic changes in some political issues. Then I met with important people and said, if we want anything good for Nigeria, we need a Southern President, for example, some of these insecurities where the herdsmen are roaming around, intimidating and, terrorizing people, kidnapping and so on and so forth, they believe and have this mindset that is our government, nobody can do anything to us because the President is Fulani, they had this impression that they are free to do whatever they want.

But if we have a southern president, things will go down, everybody will find his level.

But a southerner is still on the seat, just one year into first tenure, why agitating for a northern president?

I will tell you why! The north is disadvantaged in terms of economic prosperity, educational prosperity. Poverty is endemic. It’s unassailable. It is all imaginable.

There was poverty in the region before president Tinubu came in.

I wasn’t aware of people going to bed without one meal. Now I’m aware. In those days, I know the middle class could come to Abuja with tender documents and bid for a job and if you’re lucky, you get it without knowing who is the minister. These days, there’s no job. No contracts, we are so impoverished that that we cannot risk another government coming to treat us

Wouldn’t your friend Peter Obi be disappointed in you having supported him in 2023?

I didn’t join politics because of Peter Obi. Peter Obi didn’t pay my school fees. I wasn’t going to consider myself as a beneficiary of Peter Obi government because I considered myself above that.

But you could have . . .

No, I decide whether I would accept or not. So I realised that the north would been completely destroyed and annihilated, If these governments continue this way.

Don’t you believe in equity, that a northern president did eight years, so a southern president, Tinubu, your friend, should do eight years too?

The same president after we agreed that the ticket would be one Muslim, one Christian, woke up and said it’s irrelevant, so on what grounds would he claim eight years whereas he’s the first person that threw away all those equity issues away? On what ground? He has no moral right to claim it. (Text, excluding headline: Daily Sun)

Update news