Salihu Lukman was the former National Vice Chairman (North-West) of the All Progressives Congress (APC). He resigned from his exalted office from the APC National Working Committee on the eve of the emergence of former Kano State Governor, Abdullahi Umar Ganduje, as APC National Chairman. The former Director General of the forum of APC Governors, the Progressive Governors Forum (PGF) speaks with select journalists in Abuja, including TAIWO AMODU.

PEOPLE see you as being too critical of others in leadership positions. From APC former national chairmen and serving [senators] to the president, you keep finding fault with them. Do you see that as actually being progressive as a member of the APC?

I think it is quite unfair to say I don’t say anything good. And I take you back, I keep making the point of how close I am with Comrade Adams Oshiomhole. When he was going to declare for the national chairmanship, I was one of those who wrote his declaration speech. If I didn’t see anything good in him, I wouldn’t have supported him in the first place. And seeing good in a person, if I like the person, it doesn’t mean I should keep quiet when the person is doing the wrong thing. I think the challenge we have and this is the real issue: for many people, when you try to assist them by offering advice, it is quite difficult when they become leaders. Understandably so because they are surrounded by demands so they are unable to distinguish those who genuinely want to support them to succeed and those praise singers who just want to extract some benefits out of them. And in the process, people like us, I mean become shortchanged if I can put it that way.

For me, if I discover that I am not able to assess my leaders and they are going wrong, don’t forget that it is the society that is at the receiving end of their inability to do the right thing; I will come out and say it. That is why my background is activism. I didn’t just go into activism because it is fashionable; I went in with my eyes very open. I am hungry for knowledge; I read a lot. So that is about Adams.

After Adams leadership was removed, Mai Mala Buni came and all of you were witnesses to that. There was a time I was assisting in drafting some of the statements from the caretaker committee. But when they decided that they wanted to start manipulating whether to have a convention or not to have a convention, they phased us out.

In the case of Tinubu, God knows I was shocked when Ganduje’s name, whom I respect, came up after the removal of Abdullahi Adamu. I have said it several times that I didn’t believe he (Tinubu) made the right decision. If you look at our constitution, the first preference is that the state that produced the member of the NWC has the benefit of nominating the replacement. So based on that, I thought Nasarawa State should have been given that honour and we are lucky to have somebody like Tanko Al- Makura who is first of all a founding member of the party. By our reading of the situation, he was practically sanctioned because of his closeness to Tinubu. One of the reasons he was not considered for the national chairman position was his closeness to the president.

I thought then that as Tinubu became the president, he should have been chosen seamlessly. This is the point as of today, like in the statement I issued a week ago, it is so painful and irritating that the whole North-Central in the politics of the country is marginalised under Tinubu’s leadership. If we keep quiet, we are not helping him. I want him to succeed in every respect. I want a situation where long after his tenure, he will be remembered as one of the best presidents Nigeria produced. We are not going to support him by just patting him on the back when he does the wrong things. I am hoping that one of these days, he will correct some of these things.

To the best of my knowledge, I am not always against leaders and if I am against leaders, why am I in the party? I am still in the party. Go and ask a lot of our leaders from the time of Buhari up to now, none of them has seen my CV. I have not gone out looking for an appointment or anything. All the appointments from Progressive Governors Forum, to even the party, I was invited; I didn’t present myself. This is why it is always painful when some of us request to see the president, but it is being considered as lobbying. I am not going to see the president to lobby for an appointment. Not that I don’t like it, but that is not my priority.

The position where this country is now needs a lot of selflessness. We are a generation that got almost the best out of this country. Our children are at the receiving end of poor leadership. So I won’t lie to you, sometimes, I am fired by a high level of anger about what we have today. So, I won’t lie. If anybody is deceiving himself that what we have is okay because we are relatively comfortable, the person is deceiving himself.

What do you think Tinubu can do to meet the expectations of Nigerians?

Look, first my belief before now was that immediately Tinubu came in, there would be a remarkable distinction between the way government and party were run under Buhari and the way [they] will be run under him. I expected that the organs of the party would be active and through meetings of the organs of the party, the president would benefit from a lot of advice the organs and leaders of the party would be able to offer him [as well as] have access to him structurally which was what we lacked under Buhari. And there will be a lot of national debates about what needs to be done to correct all the problems the country is facing, whether concerning the whole debate about restructuring or even about the management of the economy and how to open up opportunities for citizens.

I expect that there should be a lot of excitement because that is what democracy is expected to produce based on which citizens will have that sense of pride, a sense of belonging that we are part of this country called Nigeria. And when we say things, although we don’t meet the president, there are channels through which I can see my view whether the way I express it or the way somebody expresses it is being reflected in the decision they make.

President Tinubu took up with a bang. There was a lot of excitement; his approval rating was high at least in the first two weeks after his inauguration. Now, I thought that could have been sustained but somehow everything declined. And I have raised it before, first was his decision about the withdrawal of the subsidy. I expected immediately it would be followed with some series of actions that indicate where the country is going to resolve the whole challenge of domestic production of petroleum products because that is where the problem is. Now, all we see is that okay, money that should have been paid for subsidy has been saved which is why if you remember it was Lamido Sanusi who was asking the question where is the dollar? And that is the question many people are asking. The people will legitimately ask those questions because somehow a decision has been taken but there was no follow-up action to ensure that the problem that created the subsidy regime has been resolved. It is the same thing with the exchange rate issue.

Instead of allowing even public debate and letting the government benefit from even some of the suggestions that will be coming from the public, what appears is that we want to just cage people which is why, for instance, I see from the initial steps taken by some of the leaders of government to now say government inherited a bankrupt economy… a comatose country! Bla! Bla! It is a failure not to take responsibility. Whether it is a bankrupt economy, we are part of it.

If you recall, some people say if Buhari had messed up the economy, who brought him to power? It is all of us in the party. So we must take those responsibilities.

Now, I think and this is where my confidence is: all hope is not lost. I believe President Tinubu can recover himself and he will recover himself, I have that confidence, and begin to address all these issues. Concerning getting the structures of the party to function, I think the president needs to challenge everybody, rather than everybody just waiting for him to make a decision. Everybody should sit up.

We removed Adamu and brought Ganduje. But he is just sitting, and almost behaving like Adamu. I am sorry, with due respect to him, no meeting is taking place, except sometimes, ceremonial. You see people paying courtesy visits, but it doesn’t amount to meeting all the obligations the constitution has imposed on him as the national chairman of the party. I think these are the issues.

Also if you stretch it, the whole challenge facing the country, I say concerning Ondo, Rivers, and a number of those challenges, people calling on Tinubu to intervene should know that it is not for the president to intervene, but for him to challenge everybody to do the right thing. If today our judiciary and our legal system were working, our law enforcement agencies working the way that they enforce the law as provided in both the constitution and all laws of the country, some of the rascality going on would not take place. But when people believe they have the protection of somebody, which is why people will say the president should intervene, it is just for him to challenge both the law enforcement agencies and the judiciary to do the needful and decline to give cover to anybody who violates the law.. If we want this democracy to meet the expectations of the citizens, this has to happen.

Why did you throw away your NWC seat when it would have been better to remain in the system and keep pushing for the right things to be done? Are you not afraid of expulsion when you continue with your criticisms?

Well, first, on the question of why I threw away my seat, there are a lot of dynamics going on. What appears in the public is not as safe as what people will imagine. It was very clear to me there were forces within the party that were not happy with my role of getting rid of Adamu, and all the advocacy I had done and I could see the personal danger, which was not just a threat to my life but a threat to my political career, and I am not someone who enjoys good relationship with many party leaders. And sincerely speaking, they give me a lot of protection, no doubt about, it but concerning the PGF, there were clear divisions.

My role was creating divisions among governors, and it was safer for me, and the governors to resign, which was what I did. Now, I could see that it is not a question of division, but that there are people who were determined to get rid of me out of the party’s leadership and I couldn’t just take the risk because if I allow them and they succeed, I am damaged. And anything I said thereafter, people would say is because I am angry that I have been thrown out. Based on that, I chose to save myself, which is why I took a lot of time, basically going all over rebuilding my political career. And I said first thing, let me even document the experiences in the struggle to get rid of the caretaker committee, to the struggle to have Tinubu emerge as presidential candidate and which is what I did. After I did that, I said okay let me use it to see if I can negotiate with leaders and those of them who feel offended. Many felt offended that I resigned in the first place. So let me use it to negotiate so that those who are offended will understand it is not as if I wanted to spite them, which is what I did. I think that is the issue.

Your second question about fear of being expelled from the party, look, let me tell you my personal stories. I started facing disciplinary committees from my ‘A’ level. At every stage, I faced a disciplinary committee, I went there with an open mind. I can win, I can be thrown out. But the good thing is that I wasn’t doing anything selfishly, and God sees my heart. Sometimes protection comes from unexpected quarters.

So, look at the most important thing in life (and this is my message to everybody), just have the best of intentions. Don’t set out to be mean or bad to anybody. I think that is my protection. I didn’t set out in the case of Oshiomhole, Buni, Adamu, I didn’t set out to say they must leave the leadership of the party. No. I intended to draw attention to where the problem lies. When they didn’t listen to me, we continued the advocacy.

For me, the first problem in life is fear. Once you conquer fear and, in any case, if I am expelled from the party today, what do I lose? I have said so when I was in PGF. There were governors, I told them I have this thinking that I am first a citizen of Nigeria before being a party member, before being at that time DG PGF. You can sack me as DG, and I will remain a party member. If you so wish you can expel me as a party member, I am still a citizen of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. In all of these things, you can expel me over anything if you like, but you can’t expel me from being a citizen of the country. And in Nigeria, nobody can trace, up to the last five or six generations, the lineage where I come from and say one of the generations is from outside Nigeria. So, I think we should get it right. Once you conquer fear, you don’t have any problems.

What is your relationship with Adamu, former national chairman? Have you met him since he stepped down as chairman?

With the former national chairman? No, we have not met; we have not even spoken.

All of them from Oshiomhole, Buni…?

No! No! You see even on Sunday, I am meeting Comrade Adams Oshiomhole. Like I said, Adams is like a mentor to me. I worked with him for 16 years, from textile union to NLC and we are very close. But like I said, my relationship with Comrade Oshiomhole is not the usual relationship of patting people on the back. He knows it. Sometimes when he wants critical opinion, he calls me even when we were in textile union. When everybody is applauding him, he knows that if he is wrong, I will tell him. And Mai Mala, even this afternoon, sent me a message to acknowledge receipt of an invitation to say he is in Ummrah. Look, I make sure in all the disagreements I have with leaders, I don’t personalise them.

So, how has life been since you left the party’s NWC?

Let me be honest with you; in the beginning, it was quite challenging, because it was not something I prepared for. It came almost like nose bleeding. And I tell those who are close to me that after I sent the resignation letter, I even went to check my bank balances and, of course, I am as poor as a church [mouse]; I don’t keep money; I don’t save. I don’t believe in saving. The only way I save is to invest and luckily, I have a farm and I have a poultry. It is just this January it will start producing eggs. So I just had to find a way to ensure that at least in terms of my survival, I could manage myself without going around begging people. I tried to do that. I don’t have much. I will say I planned my life very well; so I won’t sit down here and lie. But after I settled down, I tackled some of the major challenges. I am quite relaxed now, very, very relaxed, which is why I could within a short period put together all the materials for the book and publish it.

Regarding your critique of the party in recent times, there have been insinuations that the former Kaduna State governor, Mallam Nasir El Rufai, is the one allegedly sponsoring you. What is your take?

I think it is quite unfair. Some know me but live in denial. If anything, I was among the first to challenge Mallam when he went to Kaduna to say he was going to run for governor. I don’t want to go into the details about why I challenged him. I didn’t challenge him because I was ambitious. I challenged him because I disagreed with him. I disagreed with the way he was organising his politics and we have a good relationship for which I give him credit; he can manage all our disagreements. He didn’t translate them into personal hatred or whatever.

Many people know a lot of these things, but they have chosen to deny them. They chose to just close their eyes and say … some said my closeness to Dr [Kayode] Fayemi and interestingly both Mallam and Dr Fayemi, I will say, are closer to my wife because she worked with them. My wife worked with Fayemi in CDD, she worked with Mallam in FCT. But despite all that, it didn’t stop me. The way people read what I write, that is the way they read. I never go to anybody. In fact, some of my close friends quarrel with me; they tell me: share those things with us before you release. I said if I share with you, are you going to censor me? Is it my opinion or your opinion?

So, look, I don’t hide the fact that… the reality is that I am close to Mallam, but since I left leadership and Mallam was the one who nominated me for the leadership, people would expect that I would consult him before deciding to resign. I didn’t consult him and since I resigned, till today, we have not spoken. Of course, I share with him some of the things I write. Even the invitation to the book launch, I only sent it to him. Till today, we have not spoken. So, I think it is unfair to Mallam to say he is the one sponsoring me and I don’t know what sponsoring me means.

There are allegations that you are doing this to attract attention so that they can call you for negotiation.

Look, I don’t know what negotiation means, which is why, in recent times, I have been challenged to tell my background story. I am privileged to come from a family that has produced ministers as far back as the 1980s and my uncle was a minister when I was NANS president. To be fair to that man, may God rest his soul, he did everything to pull me out of activism, including a direct offer that I should just concentrate on my studies. There are people still alive who can testify to that. ‘Just concentrate on your studies; job and everything in life we promise you’. But because it is something I believe in, I thanked him and I told my mother, interestingly my stepmother; may God rest her soul, who brought me up, because in a typical Fulani tradition being the first child, have no relationship with my mother. That same person who brought me is also the same person who brought Rilwanu up. As I told them, look they should just pray for me. My family will only see me with my education and my job. If you go to my family house and ask them how I funded my university education, they don’t know. How I got my job, they don’t know.

So, these things about going to negotiate, if I was going to negotiate, I would have done so way back and even my career and life trajectory would have been different. I wish my wife was here, she will tell you one of the things that I tortured her with was the possibility of a shorter lifespan. My father died at the age of 59; today, I am 60. For me at this stage, I am ready to die any moment. So, I will not negotiate. That is why I plan my life in such a way. Look, today, I am so glad as my last child just passed out of NYSC; so I don’t have school fees to pay. For me, many people mismanaged their lives and unfortunately, they judge you based on who they are. I have, from the challenges I faced growing up, decided to organise my life in such a way that I would not leave some of the liabilities, for instance, my father left behind. I am praying to Allah to support me to achieve that and I think I have achieved that.

Away from politics, the military drone killed some villagers recently. You are from Kaduna, maybe you want to react to it.

Sincerely, it is really unfortunate that happened, but I am so proud of the level of solidarity that I have seen. Unlike in the past, I have not seen politics taken over, but I see that everybody is showing concern and people are not blaming even the community. Just yesterday, I saw them having a meeting with Governor Uba Sani. When I think somebody wanted to capitalise on that and went to court demanding some billions of Naira, the community came out to disown the person. I think these are very positive things that need to be built on. It is quite unfortunate. I do hope that this will open our eyes to sit down, especially in the security sector, to now begin to do the right thing. Part of the challenge we have is that the problem of banditry still exists; the problem of kidnapping still exists, and insecurity is still very high. So long as we are living with this number of dangers, vulnerability will remain high. I believe what has happened is what I will call legitimate error.

You talked about the fear of rebellion; is it within the party or among Nigerians?

It is among Nigerians, because, look, we are all Nigerians and when you go to the market, you know what you are facing. The cost of living has dramatically shot up in the last six months and there is no indication it is going to start coming down. Today, the basic problem with many people is food to eat in our homes. If that is not addressed, one day, you will be walking on the street and if they see you looking neat, you will become the enemy; you will be attacked. That is the challenge. So when I am talking about rebellion, I am not talking of party members who want privileges of appointments in government or contesting elections. No. I am talking of citizens who are having difficulty surviving, because they cannot feed.

Let us talk about the crisis in Rivers State. The state assembly was pulled down last week. What did you see as a way out?

I think we should take responsibility in some ways because, perhaps, if as leaders of the party, we didn’t indulge Wike the way we did, he would have managed his relationship back in Rivers with the governor and other political leaders better. I think, honestly because I don’t want to play cheap politics, we must appeal to Wike, if for whatever reason he made the choice he made to support Siminalayi Fubara to emerge as the governor, he must take responsibility and live with the consequences and find a way to swallow the bitter pills. This is because we are not talking about governance. The more he mismanaged his relationship with Fubara, those who are going to be receiving the short end of the stick are the people of Rivers State. This is not going to happen at the expense of governance. You can see based on the street fight, you can see an “arrangee” has been made: Fubara presented the budgt; in less than 24 hours it was passed. This is not a democracy anymore.

Leadership is about taking full responsibility, sometimes denying yourself; it is like, as a father, it is not every day I sit down here and watch things happen and I say I am happy. Sometimes, I have to just swallow things, so that other people in the family can remain happy even when I am not happy myself. That is what I expect from Fubara and Wike and even from our party so that the people of Rivers State will be happy. If this is happening at the beginning of tenure, it is going to define governance. I see a commentator drawing what is happening in Rivers State and what happened in Edo during the first tenure of Obaseki. Look, if this democracy is to move this country forward, we need leaders who will make the needed sacrifices so that citizens can be happy and not by going to the street fighting simply because you disagree with yourselves.

What do you mean when you said APC has over-indulged Wike?

Well, you are witnesses. I am sure when the group of the so-called caretaker committee came to pay the courtesy visit to the national chairman and shortly after that, the national vice chairman (South-South) led APC leaders from that state to go and visit Wike and after that, without any local problem in Rivers State, the NWC sat down and dissolved all structures of APC to open the door for Wike to come into the party. So, I mean, you just give him licence to say you are welcome; whatever you do, we accept it. That is what I mean by indulgence and I don’t think we should reduce politics further.

People have concluded that the drama in Rivers is all about the 2027 power game, considering the voting strength of the state. What is your take?

Unfortunately, for us, that is where we are. We reduced the whole politics to the issue of electoral contest. Less than six months coming out of a general election, we are already commencing the contest for the next general election which will come up in the next four years. The question of what elected representatives should do to deliver on the promises made has already been sacrificed. Citizens are just waiting; they are at the receiving end. We promised renewed hope, but we are doing nothing to renew the hope and everybody is quiet. So, for me, if you accuse me of attacking leaders because I said some of these things, I accept it. I take responsibility and if leaders are angry with me to the point that they want to expel me from the party, I also accept it. It just means they are not ready to behave like truly progressive politicians which we sold to Nigerians. (Sunday Tribune)

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