Professor Akinwande Bolaji Akinyemi was a lecturer at the University of Ibadan (UI), Oyo State, for some years before he became the Director-General (DG) of the Nigerian Institute of International Affairs (NIA) from 1975 to 1983. He was the Minister of External Affairs in the government of Gen. Ibrahim Babangida. Since then, the professor of International Relations has been active in the public for a, including the 2014 National Conference by the government of former President Goodluck Jonathan, of which he was deputy chairman.

Prof, let’s begin with your name; the Akinwande has disappeared. Why are you not called Akin Akinyemi, but Bolaji Akinyemi?

It Is a long and short story really. Every male in the Akinyemi family was called Akin. My elder brother of blessed memory was called Akinwunmi. I had a younger brother called Akintunde. I had another brother who was in the army, he was called Akinloye. I have another brother who is called Akinlolu. So, I thought, so many Akins in this family. So, when I was admitted to Igbobi College, it was as Akinwande B. Akinyemi. Then in Form 3, I decided that I would drop the Akinwande. It was from there that Bolaji Akinyemi stuck. I then ended up in all my documents after that as Bolaji Akinyemi.

How were your early years in Ilesha?

As I said, I had an elder brother, I followed him, and then there was a third person, Akintunde, and then my father went off. He had the three of us when he was a teacher in a grammar school, but without a degree. So, they decided to send him to Fourah Bay, the University College in Sierra Leone. He went off to go and get a degree, and I was told that when my mother couldn’t cope with three boys, and as was the tradition in those days, you got parceled to your dad’s friends.

Some of the friends treated us well, some not too well. I was one of those treated badly. My mother had to come and rescue me from there. I then stayed with my mum until my dad came back and the family gathered together again in Ilesha.

Was it there you did primary school?

Yes! I was in St John’s Primary School. You know Ilesha really was a Christian town, unlike say Osogbo which was half Muslim and half Christian. Ilesha was basically a Christian town and so the primary school was the school of the church.

But one thing I remember about that school is that the son of the archdeacon who was the head of the church was there, the son of the principal of the secondary school was there, the son of a farmer who had to walk about 10 miles to school was there, the son of the woman who might be selling cigarettes – the Yoruba call it “wosi-wosi”—it means small-small things, the son was there.

There was no class distinction, and my closest friend, whom I kept all my life, died a month ago, was actually the son of this woman who was selling little-little things.

What was his name?

Akin Ogundipe. Don’t let me come out and say I was the smartest in the school, actually I wasn’t, I was number two. I tried so hard to be number one, but guess who was number one? The son of the farmer who walked 10 miles to the primary school every day; he was always coming first.

But what did he get on to do?

I tried to find out but by the time I started making enquiries, because I thought this would be a good chap to look out for, we had all scattered. We scattered in December, 1954, that was our last time together.

So, from St John’s, you went to Igbobi College in Lagos?

Yes.

Was that a big move?

It was! Because, well Lagos was the capital from colonial times and it was where everything was taking place, it was where the big newspapers were published.

My elder brother had gone to Christ School in Ado-Ekiti, so you tend to follow the man ahead of you. I wanted to be like my brother, he had gone to Christ School, so I took the entrance exam and I passed and I was admitted.

But the forms for Igbobi were also brought to our school. Igbobi decided to invite us for a residential interview of three days. That was my first trip to Lagos. My grandmother was living in Lagos but I had never gone to Lagos to see her.

So, you went to Igbobi?

I went to Igbobi. I knew when they started buying things for me. They first bought the box, I knew.

How was the experience since it was a famous college for boys?

It was. In fact, there was one magazine called Whittaker Almanac, and it listed Igbobi as the only public school in Nigeria. In fact, in West Africa. It listed all public schools in the world, Igbobi was the only one listed there.

Was it owned by the government?

No! It is jointly owned by the Anglican and the Methodist, but under Chief Awolowo’s educational policy, there was a policy that the government should assist all existing secondary schools. It didn’t make them government schools; they belong in the category of government-assisted schools.

The day we were supposed to report in school it was my mother who delivered me to the school.

We drove up the day before in my dad’s car and spent the night with my grandmother. When we got to Igbobi, the prefects had lined up to receive the young ones. I told my mother, “That’s him, the senior prefect I was telling you about, that’s him, see how big he is, he is one of the Ibrus, Felix Ibru,” he was the senior prefect.

Felix Ibru died about two years ago. I said, “That’s him, see, he will kill me.” So, my mother got out of the car and said, “Let’s go.” I said I was not going. She grabbed me and took me and introduced herself and said, “Please this is my son, see how small he is, please help me protect him.”

So you were not bullied; you had a good time in the school?

I had a good time.

But unlike most of your peers who went to UI, you did all your university schooling in the US?

Well, you know one doesn’t plan some of these things, but every action has consequences. I’d always been interested in current affairs and I took considerable interest in reading newspapers. I probably spent more time everyday reading the Daily Times at that time than even reading my textbooks.

One day, I was reading the Daily Times and I saw an advert there saying the Federal Ministry of Education in conjunction with the American Embassy announced an essay competition and were inviting all Nigerian secondary school students who wished to compete. They gave us the topic. I don’t remember the topic now.

I thought that was interesting, so I wrote an essay, and that was the time Nigeria was Nigeria, you post it to P.O. Box something. One day a letter came and the principal called me to his office and said, “A letter for you.” I opened it and the letter said congratulations, your essay has been shortlisted, so you are being invited for an interview in Lagos Ministry of Education.

We were actually four that got letters. And after the four of us were interviewed, after some time, somebody popped his head across an open door and said, “Who is Akinwande Bolaji Akinyemi?” The rest of you go to room so and so and collect your transport fare.

I then went in again and he said, “Congratulations, you’ve been picked as the best from Nigeria and you are going on a three-month trip to the United States. We will pay for the ticket, you will stay with American families.”

They asked me to wait for the letter, gave it to me and I stopped in Ilesha and showed it to my parents. You know parents in those days, they didn’t show any excitement, you don’t know what they do behind your back, but when you are sitting there, it was like what is the big deal, of course we were expecting this, you know.

So, we then went through the process, and after my HSC, I departed for the United States.

You found yourself in the US at that young age?

Yes.

How was it?

January, 1962, I left Nigeria, the heat, and then when they opened the door of the plane in New York, it was snowing!

During the three-month stay in the US, we were moved around, but what stayed with me even till today was our meeting with John F. Kennedy. He wasn’t surrounded, unlike here where the president is like a traditional ruler; he is surrounded by chief of staff, press secretary, this, that, no. Kennedy came out by himself. He kind of buttoned his coat and he spoke to us about how America welcomed us and hoped we would have a good time, that we would come back to study and to stay if we wanted to.

And what he wished for you happened, because that opportunity of travelling for three months led you to go to the university there for your first and second degrees?

Yes, but there is a story behind that. For my HSC, I was studying science subjects because my brother had got admission to study medicine in UI and so again I wanted to be a medical doctor like my elder brother. But at the end of my second year, my house master called me and that would be the first and only, what will you call it?

Career guidance?

Career guidance that I would receive in my life, and he said to me, “I know you want to be a doctor. With 100 per cent of your energy you will only be a 50 per cent doctor.”

An average one?

An average one, “But if you decide to do diplomacy,” first time again I will hear of that word diplomacy, “with 50 per cent of your energy you will be a first class diplomat. I suggest you drop this dream of being a doctor and go and be a diplomat.” I didn’t ask how you become a diplomat, I just said yes and thanked him.

But during my trip to the United States, it was there I had the opportunity to discuss with people and they said, well study political science and then maybe for your graduate studies you will now specialise in international relations and diplomacy and that kind of thing.

And that was what you did, was it tough?

Flesher School of Law and Diplomacy. I have a masters’ degree in international law and diplomacy, as well as a masters in international affairs.

But because of the nature of American education, I didn’t lose time, because in the US, you are not allowed to specialise, your first degree must be a general one, so they gave me what they call credit for my science subjects at A level, and then you know all my subjects in political science, so for a four-year degree I did it in two years.

With all those degrees in America, apparently you didn’t want to stay, you went to England, you went to Oxford, to do your PhD, what was the reason for that?

I was aware that we still had this colonial mentality at that time that American degrees were not really worth respecting. So, I thought I would confront it with a university degree from Oxford.

PhD from Oxford?

From Oxford you don’t go any better than that, I will now like to see what you are going to say when you look at the combination, if you don’t like American degree, okay, here is the British one, and if you don’t like the British one, here is the American one, so that was why I went to Oxford on a federal government scholarship.

Was it straight from the US or you came back home?

Straight from the US, straight from Flesher School, and I went to Trinity College and then came back home. Of course, by that time you know there had been the coup and we were going through a period of turmoil.

And you became a lecturer in UI?

Yes.

It seems you didn’t stay long as a lecturer, as you moved to NIA; how did that come about?

I spent five years at UI and became a senior lecturer. There was a generational division among scholars, between those employed before the civil war and who stayed all through the civil war and those of us who came after the civil war.

When did you return?

I returned in 1970. The offer was made to me in 1969, but by the time I got the offer, I had committed myself to a university in the United States. So, I went off for one year to teach in the United States. We decided that we would postpone my resumption until September, 1970.

There were probably about six of us who came in 1970; that was why I said the post-civil war, and we were all trained abroad, so we were all brimming with ideas.

There was the Nigerian Society of International Law midwifed by Prof Ilias, who later became…

Teslim Ilias?

Teslim Ilias, he was Attorney General of the Federation but later on went on to be Chief Justice (CJ).

We decided we would set up the Nigerian Society of International Affairs. The older generation couldn’t understand why, they felt they could accommodate us within the Nigerian Society of International Law.

We felt no, we wanted international affairs to have its own character. We decided that we were not just going to make it of university scholars, whichever activist military officers we could identify, we would invite them to come and join the society. The same thing with the civil service, we would also invite them to join the society at its inception.

Now, among the people we identified in the military were Brigadier Murtala Muhammed, Brigadier Olusegun Obasanjo, Brigadier Adekunle, Brigadier Shotomi and so on, and then among the civil servants we thought of Alison Ayida, and Attah, who became head of service.

Was that when you started to know Murtala?

Yes.

As a lecturer in Ibadan?

Yes, and Obasanjo and Shotomi. I remember our conference at ABU, and that was when it struck me, we were discussing the OAU and the Middle East politics and the person who was delivering the paper was going on and on and Murtala just exploded where he was sitting, “What concerns us about that? Let’s talk about what Nigerian interests are.” And he got up and walked out. It was time for prayers, he walked out and we then saw him in the corridor, he removed his shoes and then was saying his prayers.

Was this in ABU?

Yes, this must have been probably 1972 or so, but that was the first time I met him.

So, what changed under Murtala, you were the DG of NIA shortly after he became head of state? We know about the foreign policy changes, especially the famous speech on Angola?

If you know Murtala’s character, you will know that whatever he said he meant. There’s no doubt in my mind that he would have pursued those policies.

You asked whether those policies were sustainable. Well, since I had a hand in designing some of them, it would be rather churlish of me to now deny him and deny those policies.

I mean, I was only 32, 33, maybe there was youthful exuberance. But look at my role model, John F. Kennedy, how old was he? And there were some of his policies that people probably felt were not sustainable, well unfortunately he got killed, so we would never know, just as Murtala got killed and so we would never know.

But one of my contributions to Nigeria’s foreign policy is the Technical Aid Corps scheme. I borrowed that from John F. Kennedy’s Peace Corps.

But this was later when you became a foreign minister, right?

Yes, this came later when I was foreign minister. But given the fact that they took over from Gowon, we did have a buoyant economy and we did have a buoyant treasury, I think it was sustainable.

After Murtala was killed and Obasanjo became president, did you work well with Obasanjo given what I heard you said in one or two interviews later?

I had a closer relationship with Murtala than I did with Obasanjo even though I had known Obasanjo for a longer period than Murtala.

They were two different characters, and you know a head of state determines the relationship he wants with you, you cannot determine the relationship you want with the head of state.

So, at times when they wanted to humour you, they said you hadn’t called me for some time, I did say, sir you are the one to call because you would always get me on the phone.

So, you had more access to Murtala?

I had more access to Murtala than Obasanjo.

You later became the Minister of External Affairs under Babangida; how did that appointment come about?

I didn’t go back to Ibadan, I went to University of Lagos (Unilag) as a professor, they offered me a chair there and so I was there from September 83 and then their coup took place in 85 and I was offered the Ministry of External Affairs.

I had known IBB since 1975. I told you that he was one of my favourite officers. One of my students was Lt Col Dogonyaro who was a tank officer and was one of IBB’s officers. It was through Dogonyaro that I met IBB in 1975. In fact, he was a lieutenant colonel at that time, a very inquisitive officer, always interested in knowledge, always interested in ideas. He attended our lectures, he attended our conferences. After Murtala was killed, all the senior officers in critical positions went around with escorts.

We had our lectures in the evening and IBB would drive into our compound by himself, no escort, no driver, no nothing.

So, I wasn’t surprised that when he then had the opportunity to pick his ministers he remembered me.

Did you enjoy working with him?

That is not an easy question to answer.

Why?

It is not. I suppose he would say he didn’t find being President of Nigeria an easy chair to occupy. I was officially the only Minister of External Affairs, there was no minister of state or anything, but from the first day I was aware that I was not the only Minister of External Affairs. We probably were about six.

There were people who had influence on foreign affairs and who influenced him. Gen Gusau was one, Gen Akilu was another, and there was an air force officer, I can’t remember the name now. These were people he would send on missions, foreign affairs missions and the way we would get to know was because, of course you can’t go visiting a country without an ambassador getting to know, we had to alert our ambassadors that so and so was coming, and that would be all we would know about it.

What they were going there to do we didn’t know. So, I wasn’t the only foreign minister, I was one of his foreign ministers.

One of six you said?

One of six. However, policies that were important and critical to me as a minister he supported, he never said no, he supported. The Technical Aid Corp scheme was one of them. That was opposed by the cabinet which couldn’t understand even though I explained that the ministry always had a foreign aid budget, and what I wanted to put a stop to was writing of cheques. Instead, whatever it was that other countries needed, let’s send our men there and then we paid him from the foreign aid budget.

We were not asking for extra money, in spite of that, most of the people in the cabinet were opposed to it, but IBB was for it and that was what mattered.

Another of your foreign policy initiatives failed, I don’t know why and I don’t why Nigeria for example is still not in BRICS, is still not in the G-20. South Africa that came later, became independent in 1994, is now the one representing Africa in those powers. Does it pain you that this is the situation?

Of course it does, and surprisingly wherever I go to speak, I mean you use the term that it failed, but I have to often remind my audience that it failed because they thought it wasn’t a good initiative, and I would say yes, but it failed and why did it fail? IBB supported it, he approved because you know all the consultations that must take place for it to bear fruit, but Aikhomu, his Chief of General Staff, was opposed to it and he was using Prof Olusanya at NIA to run a press campaign against it.

Once he removed me from office, Ike Nwachkwu took over. I mean you study the body language of your boss and it was like, well it was not going to fly, it didn’t fly and yet as you’ve pointed out, Nigeria is still paying the price for its not flying because global affairs abhor a vacuum.

South Africa became independent, they found a vacuum and they are a member of BRICS, we are not, they attend meetings of G-20. I understand that the Indians who are going to have the next meeting of G-20 have invited Tinubu to come, but he will be going as an invited guest and not as a member.

All these years, all these resources, all these activism that you and a legion of experts going back to the 60s have championed, even in Africa, Nigeria is taken so lightly in foreign affairs; why?

Number one, non-consistency. The last activist head of state you had in this country was Obasanjo during his second coming.

If, big if, late President Yar’Adua had been well, you might have got an activist foreign policy under him, but unfortunately we saw what happened.

President Jonathan did not have the confidence to pursue an activist foreign policy; he didn’t.

Again, Buhari was ill for a considerable time during his first term, and when he got over the illness, I don’t think he was really interested in foreign policy, he wasn’t.

You then cannot say that you blame the people who didn’t take us seriously if we were not taking ourselves seriously.

The second is that we still have the problem of defining what our national interest is, and this goes back all the way back to the 60s.

Most of my opponents when I was a minister were my colleagues from the university. We just couldn’t put together a consensus in terms of the definition of our foreign policy.

Do you get invited these days to contribute ideas and develop policies?

No.

Are you out of the picture completely?

I am out of the picture completely. If not for the concept of your programme, normally when the press approaches me, I say go to the younger ones, you have been approaching me since I was 28, I’m 81 now, there are younger ones, younger professors in the universities, at NIPSS, go to them, help them grow by giving them the platform to express their views.

What is your day-to-day life like?

It depends. If I have conferences to attend at NIA, I go. If there are no conferences to attend, I monitor world events on the global network, and if I have lectures to give, I spend time preparing the lectures, and that is about all.

How is family life for you?

My children are grown up. They have families of their own, so I’m a grandpa in the scheme of things.

But you still live in a big house all by yourself?

Unfortunately they’ve gone, they’ve gone to set up houses of their own. There are so many houses that have become desolate because the old man is just sitting there all alone by himself.

But you know, as long as the brain is functioning, one should be grateful to God, what one should never pray for is a brain that is decaying, where the cells are dying and because then, one has a problem. What is the use of having an able body but the brain is not clicking up there? (Daily Trust)

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