Elder Sunday Oibe, the Executive Secretary, Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), 19 Northern States and the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja, has given reasons for the resurgence of the killings in Kaduna, Benue and Plateau states in the past few weeks.

Elder Oibe, in this interview in Kaduna, noted that most of the perpetrators of the killings were terrorists imported to Nigeria by some politicians, even as he charged President Tinubu to go after such evil politicians.

He also described as treasonable the recent comments by Malam Nasir El-Rufai on Muslim-Muslim tickets, noting that the former governor was inciting Nigerians against President Tinubu.

While commending Tinubu for firing and replacing security chiefs in the country, he berated the president for removing fuel subsidy without putting palliatives in place for suffering Nigerians, insisting that the move had made life quite hellish for most Nigerians.

What are your views on the activities of President Tinubu in the last three weeks?

Honestly speaking, it is too early in the day to either score or rate him because he has not really settled down for serious issues of governance. However, from his speech on the day he took over from President Muhammadu Buhari by removing the fuel subsidy, he actually took the nation backward. Nigerians know that the issue of subsidy has been a scam; it was Tinubu himself and many others like him who frustrated former President Goodluck Jonathan from removing fuel subsidy. So immediately Tinubu announced the removal, prices of fuel skyrocketed, prices of food skyrocketed, every other price has gone up by 200 per cent. He should have sat down and thought about how to put in place some palliative measures before the announcement. But be that as it may, like I said, it is too early in the day whether to score him well or not. He is very smart; he is trying to see that Nigerians accept him. Some Nigerians are still aggrieved that the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) shortchanged them. So I think if it is possible to win the hearts of Nigerians and walk into their hearts, that is what he doing now. But for the administration that is less than a month in office, it is difficult to say whether it is doing well or not, and it is too early in the day to score it or not.

Security challenges have continued. Why are we having a resurgence again?

Some of us have been saying this but Nigerians don’t want to listen; the issue of insurgency is an organised crime, to build is very difficult, but to destroy is very easy. You don’t expect that with the emergence of Tinubu as president, insecurity will be stamped out overnight. No. But one good thing he has done is the change of the Service Chiefs as announced on Monday. I think that is a welcome development. Most of these people from the top rank officers of the military have compromised because what we are reading in the media are correct. Some of these people that were arrested, we know the compromise of the military. A well respected statesman like General TY. Danjuma said sometime ago that the military is colluding. People who are not thinking were calling him all manners of names. But today we know that the military were colluding with some of these insurgents. It has become a business of making money. So for Tinubu to change the guard by changing the Service Chiefs is a welcome development.

Insecurity has continued unabated in Kaduna, Benue, Plateau. Why the fresh killings again?

Well, like I said from the beginning, anybody who told you that the issue of insurgency will be dealt with overnight, he is not facing the reality. Some of these people were brought by the politicians in preparation to fight the government of President Goodluck Jonathan in 2015. And suddenly you turned your back against them. Unless if Tinubu will be serious, the politicians who brought these people to kidnap and kill Nigerians must be brought to book. It is the politicians who caused this insurgency and empowered them. One of the worst things that Buhari did was to allow people to come to Nigeria and get visa on arrival. Such is never done anywhere in the world. So, all manners of people came to Nigeria with all manners of things. We are seeing the effect today. The question is that who brought these people because the people did not just come on their own. Don’t expect that the issue of insurgency is going to go overnight.

What is the permanent solution to the security challenges?

The permanent solution to security challenges that are pervading the country are as follows; Nigerians should be empowered to know the root of the people among them. We should not treat people on the basis of religion or ethnicity. The fact that somebody who committed a crime is from my village I should therefore shield him or her, the implication is that he or she is going to commit same crime tomorrow. And tomorrow I might be a victim. So all of us must be on the same page to fight out crimes. Number two, the military should know that they are being paid by taxpayers’ money to defend this country. They defend the territorial integrity of the country. Number three, which is very important, is that those who are behind this criminality should be brought to book to let the whole world know. Any stranger that enters a community (because everybody knows everybody), such stranger should be identified by the community. So community leaders and traditional rulers should be empowered to enable them identify criminals and non criminals in their domains. The police and the Army cannot do the job alone. So every traditional institution and other stakeholders must be involved in tackling the issue of insurgency. So if there is a stranger and the community cannot identify him or her, they should send him or her away. I think if this is done and is being done well, the issue of insurgency will be brought to its knees.

In what ways did the policies of the Buhari regime aid the insecurity in the Kaduna and middle belt axis?

I can remember that when El-Rufai was about leaving office, he said that it was Buhari government that encouraged insecurity since certain things he suggested were not taken seriously against insecurity. However, you can see the final days of Buhari in office when kidnapping and killings increased. You can imagine Miyetti Allah taking responsibility for some of these killings without Buhari taking any action against them. Is anybody above the law in this country? Lo and behold, a group of people came up to say they are responsible for certain attacks in Plateau and Benue States, you cannot call on the security operatives to arrest them. But when Nnamdi Kanu called for agitation, you said the military should deal with him and his Igbo brothers. So I agree with Nigerians who said Buhari was responsible for the insurgency because both his body language and actions suggested it, and he allowed herders and farmers’ conflict to persist without finding solutions to it.

What is your view on El-Rufai’s bombshell on Muslim-Muslim tickets ruling Nigeria for the next 20 years?

First of all, I don’t want to glorify Nasir El-Rufai. Does he know where he will be in the next 20 years? Because tomorrow is in the hands of God. Even me that is talking to you now I don’t know whether I will be alive till the next day. So when a man is talking as if he has the power of life and death, that is his business. Number two, he is inciting Nigerians against Tinubu. And how do I mean; El-Rufai was allegedly aspiring to become the Secretary to Government of the Federation (SGF). But when he discovered that Tinubu’s body language was not going to deal with him, and that all Nigerians are angry because of all the brouhaha that happened during the presidential election, El-Rufai was trying to be clever by half, perhaps if he cannot get what he wants, let him incite people against this government. And you could see the reactions all over the country. For me, the comments of El-Rufai amounted to treason. What he had said was against the oath of office he had sworn. What he said was capable of causing division between Christians and Muslims in this country and by extension the government of Bola Tinubu. El-Rufai is pained because he has lost out. He is simply doing so like, ‘if I don’t get what I want, let everything scatter.’ We should also know that El-Rufai did not support Tinubu because he was trying to become the Vice Presidential running mate to another presidential candidate during the primaries election. He was with Amaechi. He never supported Tinubu until the eleventh hour. He began to run round to beg Tinubu. So El-Rufai cannot be trusted. And I will continue to say that if anybody thinks he is wise, don’t bing El-Rufai close to yourself. Keep him at an arms length because he is disloyal and a sadist. Look at the kind of things he did few hours to leaving office as the governor of Kaduna State, destroying people’s houses and property. Is that what he was elected to do? Number two, government is supposed to take people out of poverty. The eight years of El-Rufai has put the people of Kaduna into more poverty. I am not surprised at what El-Rufai had said, because since he couldn’t get what he wanted, let him scatter everything. That was what he was doing. The constitution of Nigeria stipulates that anybody above the age of 18 can aspire to become what he wants. So El-Rufai cannot tell Nigerians that Muslims will rule for 20 years. It was PDP members that said they were going to rule for 60 years, did they rule for 60 years before power left their hands? So I don’t want to talk too much of this issue because Nigerians are capable of what they can do in politics. I don’t want to glorify El-Rufai. And I am very happy because if there is anything that will make me to be glad with Tinubu, it’s the fact that he barred El-Rufai from becoming SGF or the Chief of Staff. Tinubu can give him any other appointment, but not bringing him close to him because he will destroy him through his careless and divisive speeches. At a point during Buhari’s regime, Nigerians saw how El-Rufai was lobbying to become the Vice President in the event that Buhari might not survive his ill health. So his loyalty is about his personal interest. Other Muslims have condemned what he had said. El-Rufai was not speaking for Muslims in that viral video, he was only speaking for himself.

What are your views about the performance of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) in the last elections? Are you satisfied?

How can any reasonable person be satisfied with the performance of INEC? Nigerians had never turned out for any general elections like the 2023 general elections. INEC told Nigerians repeatedly that to conduct free and fair elections, it needed certain huge amount of money, and the federal government gave it to them. The INEC told us the methodology it was going to use to conduct the election; the same election that produced Senators, and others. When it came to the election of the president, it was affected. There were issues. Number two, it was the same INEC guidelines that say one person cannot contest for two positions at the same time, but we saw that of Lawan who contested for the presidential election and the Senate. So how can I or any other reasonable persons be satisfied with the performance of INEC? Look at the composition of results, the exchange of words among electoral umpire, the ethnic profiling. So I am dissatisfied with the performance of INEC and I believe every reasonable Nigerian is dissatisfied with INEC. In fact, in an ideal society, the INEC chairman, Professor Yakubu Mahmood should be arrested and prosecuted and sent to prison. What he did amounted to corruption because he denied the people of their rights of choice of who will govern them. He is supposed to be in prison. So I am not satisfied with his performance. And he should be barred from holding any public office.

How about the election tribunals? Are you okay with their performance so far?

Well, the judiciary has the responsibility to redeem its image because the kind of pronouncement from Imo election down to the recent general elections leave a lot to be desired. We are watching carefully and Nigerians are watching carefully. Nigerians have lost faith in the sanctity of courts. This is a litmus test for the judiciary. In other parts of the world, if you mention the court, everybody will be afraid. Look at the former President of America, the most powerful country in the world. Donald Trump was arrested. But will our tribunals be fair to deliver any judgment dispassionately? Because we know that some of the judges have been compromised. The judiciary must use this opportunity at the ongoing tribunals to redeem its image.

The elections are over, but the disunity in the country continues. How can the government unite Nigerians?

Nigerians have since been divided right from the government of President Muhammadu Buhari. In the history of this country, Nigerians were sharply divided. If government wants to unite the people, she must respect the wish of the people because if you stole my thing and you refused to give it back to me, maybe because you are more powerful than me or because you have the power of the gun, I will never accept anything you are saying. So until government is ready to respect the wish of the people, this division will continue to be there. Number two, the laws are there, no part of this country should be marginalised, every part should be given its due rights constitutionally, to exercise their franchise, to speak whatever they have to say. Uniting Nigerians is a big one for Tinubu because Buhari had divided this country. And I know that wherever Buhari is, he is not feeling comfortable as a man of integrity because he failed woefully and Nigerians are not happy with him.

Former CBN governor, Emefiele, and former EFCC chairman, Bawa have been suspended from office indefinitely. Good or bad news?

Every reasonable Nigerian saw this coming, but government should not stop at Emefiele or EFCC. All members of Buhari’s kitchen cabinets who operated the way they liked should be arrested, prosecuted and sent to jail. Until that is done, nobody is happy. But the issue of Emefiele, he put Nigerians in sorrow. We were buying our own currency. Many people lost their lives, many people suffered. The arrest of these people who worked under Buhari did not come to me as a surprise, it is a welcome development. And beyond their arrest, whoever is connected to all the allegations against them should as well be arrested so that they should come and defend themselves.

What are your thoughts on allegations by Asari Dokubo that the military officers steal 99 per cent oil?

Well, it is only a thief that knows a thief. I don’t know how the crude oil looks like. I have never seen it in my life. But you see there are some characters in this country that do not need to interfere where they are not to interfere. There are certain characters that do not need to be entertained because you are glorifying them. It is only in Nigeria that people who are supposed to be in asylum are going about making noise. Such person should be rehabilitated. How can you talk about the whole Nigerian military in that perspective without facts and figures? If one person in the military is into oil theft, does that mean it is the entire military. I have never taken Asari Dokubo seriously one day. Where was Asari all this while? Or was he part of the stealing? I don’t want to comment on him further so that I will not glorify him.

What are your words of advice for Tinubu and the new Kaduna State governor, Uba Sani?

Well, I know Uba Sani. He used to be my friend. He is a man of the people. My only advice to him is that he should run as fast as possible from every shadow of his immediate predecessor, El-Rufai. He is now the governor, he should be courageous enough to correct the ills and marginalisation done by El-Rufai. Look at how El-Rufai divided Kaduna people. Look at the development he did in the Northern side of Kaduna and abandoned the Southern part. I think Uba Sani should be wiser than that. I don’t think Uba Sani is narrow-minded like El-Rufai. But if he decided to tow the line of El-Rufai, it is his own business. If he wants people to celebrate him after his tenure, he should run far away from the shadow of El-Rufai. If I were Uba Sani, I will ensure that I balance power in the state. The nepotism we saw in Kaduna and in Buhari’s regime was the ill advice of El-Rufai. So Uba Sani should keep away from that. And my advice to Tinubu is simple; he should not practise nepotism like his predecessor. Nigeria is for all of us, and he should try to pacify the Igbo. I even expected him to ensure that an Igbo man became the Senate President. But now that that did not happen, he should ensure that the Igbo take their rightful position in the Nigerian political affairs. He should not make it the issue of the winner takes all. (Saturday Sun)

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