Chairman, Presidential Advisory Committee Against Corruption (PACAC), Prof Itse Sagay in this exclusive chat with Sunday Sun speaks on President Bola Tinubu’s election and areas that deserve priority attention if he wants to make a good mark.

He also speaks on President Buhari’s legacy despite the massive condemnation that trailed his exit, as well as other critical national issues, including the neglect of the Southeast zone in the appointments so far made by Tinubu. Excerpt:

What are your expectations from President Bola Ahmed Tinubu’s leadership, particularly the priority areas you think he should address?

I think the first area is security. It is key. We need to be adequately secured. The second one is restructuring, that is to restructure the federation in a way that the states will be more independent the way they were in the 1963 constitution. There are so many aspects of restructuring; for example, local government should be a state matter, a state can create the number of local governments it wants and fund them. It is not for the Federal Government to fund local government for states. The local government belongs to the state not to the Federal Government. There is also this question of petrol matter, subsidy and all that. It is very important for our stability because of cost of living and so on. It is essential that the area or section be fixed and handled properly. Of course, the economy is another area to concentration and I expect things to improve with the renewed zeal of the new government. I expect him to put in check lots of things he has spoken about, some during the campaigns. He has to also encourage small and medium scale enterprises because they are really the ones that produce the wealth of the country. So, anything to encourage them will also positively affect the economy.

Most Nigerians kicked against the inauguration of the President on May 29, arguing that it would have been done after the Presidential Election Tribunal has given its judgment …?

(Cuts in) That surprises me because it’s more of a specific target they are aiming rather than a principle because we have had this since 1999. President Olusegun Obasanjo was sworn in when there were various cases against him. It was the same with President Yar’Adua, people like Atiku challenging it, Buhari filing cases, but he was still sworn in. It was the same thing with President Jonathan and the same thing with Buhari. So, I don’t really understand the frenzy that has suddenly overtaken some people who are now saying it is against the constitution in order to satisfy their agent or whatever, I don’t really understand. It is so extremely unreasonable and disappointing that we will be ready to break the law just to achieve a personal hatred or grudge against a particular person when we are talking of a whole nation. So, it’s wrong and I think it should be neglected and ignored. The advocates of such an agenda must know that what they are championing is wrong and condemnable.

Looking at the state of insecurity in the land, do you subscribe to the position that changing the security chiefs may be the right solution?

I don’t really know whether they are the ones that are at fault. Remember changes have been made and looking at Buratai and his group there is no improvement as expected. I think we don’t have enough security forces to deal with the number of bandits, terrorists, kidnappers, and so on. My suggestion and I have said it several times that the Federal Government should empower communities through the state governments that have been under attack to arm themselves, train young men who will bear arms, and let them be able to respond to any attack. You localise security, making sure that every community that is under threat has the means to defend itself. If that happens, you will see that the level of attacks and terrorism will drop sharply because the attackers are banking on the fact that there is no response each time they strike. Once they know that the people they are going to attack are equally armed and will respond and also kill some of them, they will think twice before embarking on such a dangerous project.

The Southeast is kicking and complaining of neglect given the fact that the Senate President of the 10th Senate is yet to be considered for the zone having lost the President, Vice President, and SGF position?

My suspicion or thinking is that the states that voted for the All Progressives Congress, APC, should be the ones to be rewarded. That is the impression I have. That the Southeast almost voted zero, about five per cent or something like that, I think that may be the issue in contention. But it may be necessary also to encourage the Southeast by giving them some positions to begin to rethink their tendency to put all their eggs in one basket. That is the mistake they have always made. They were in the PDP (Peoples Democratic Party) before, now it’s LP (Labour Party). I think it’s a mistake on their part. They should split and try others. I think that is the reason, but I also think they should be encouraged. They should equally be put in positions where they can control and contribute to the nation.

But the argument by the Southeast is that the ruling party (APC) controls two states in the zone which is good enough to attract key positions rather than being ignored?

That is true, that argument is in their favour, I agree, that should encourage them. Come to think of it the former governor of Ebonyi State, Dave Umahi is a very lovely person who has fought to ensure that the party is entrenched in the zone is good. He is a nice charming and pleasant person and he looks kind, gentle, and compassionate, and one that if you put him in a position anybody can relate to. There are equally other few people that one will point at in the zone, so they need to be encouraged. They need to be adequately integrated and in fact, it should be an all-inclusive government, all zones need to be carried along for unity.

Recently the DSS went and barricaded the gate of the EFCC…?

(Cuts in) That was wrong. Yes, it’s wrong. They are agencies that are working for the good of the country, so what they did was wrong. One is an intelligence agency (DSS), and the other is the major anti-corruption agency (EFCC), just like the ICPC. They are working together and they should cooperate with each other and if there is any problem then the leaders, the heads will sit down and discuss it and resolve it. We have done it before, so what happened was totally unacceptable and untoward, it’s embarrassing, it’s demoralizing for us Nigerians to see those who are supposedly protecting us making such contestation, that action is too shocking. My advice, I don’t know if it already exists is that the government should create a body in which each of these agencies will be represented. The body will be meeting from time to time, and they will take care of any of such misunderstanding that crops up or differences between them. That will also help with the issue of providing each with relevant information. For instance, if the DSS comes across information in the area of corruption which is not in its core area, it should then, quickly refer it to ICPC or the EFCC and vice versa. They should cooperate and work together because they are all working for the country. That issue was really an embarrassing incident and may it never happen again.

What do you see as the legacy of President Mohammadu Buhari who just left office, as the majority of Nigerians seem to be dissatisfied with the country he left behind?

It’s in two major areas and I feel sorry for him because his achievements are very much understated in Nigeria, what I will call, almost ingratitude. Of course, he left some serious things undone, like security…I will score him low, but if you look at infrastructure, and you want to be sincere, that is the best we have ever had. He tackled the Second Niger Bridge, did a lot of work on the railways, built roads all over the country. In fact, he did very well in infrastructure and nobody can deny that. Secondly, he did very well in social investment, where communities that were vulnerable, that are poor, that are wretched were provided life-saving nets. Those vulnerable communities were provided with N5,000 every month to every family so that they can pull themselves together and try and get back into the mainstream of the country. Also, providing lunch for school children all over the country, of which over 12 million took the advantage and that boosted even enrollment numbers because parents were very happy to send their children to school so that they can eat well and save them some costs. There was a programme under which young men were trained in various professions and they were paid N30,000 until they are qualified and got themselves established in their areas of training. There were those given loans that were interest-free and all other good programmes put in place to fight poverty, making people self-reliant. His government made some good innovations on investments for which he should be praised, but as I said earlier, he failed in the area of security very badly. And that is a major area and an area Tinubu must deal with squarely. Security is welfare. And in the area of economy, it didn’t do well under his leadership. But despite those areas, he did quite a number of good things for which we should also praise him. I do not think outright condemnation is the right judgment when assessing his legacy. There are laudable things he did also for which we should equally remain grateful and commend him. (Sunday Sun)

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