Sheikh Ahmed Gumi is a Kaduna-based Islamic cleric with vast knowledge of the socio-economic and political issues in the country and beyond.

In this interview, he explained why and how President Muhammadu Buhari-led Federal Government has failed to address the multi-dimensional poverty that has pushed over 133 million Nigerians below the poverty level despite signing humongous monies to that effect.

He also urged Nigerians to shake off fears and come out to vote for credible leaders in the 2023 general elections.

He is of the opinion that any political party that cannot protect its votes cannot protect Nigeria. Excerpts:

Sir, not quite long, you and the presidential candidate of the Labour Party, Mr Peter Obi met here in Kaduna, can you share a part of what the two of you discussed with Nigerians?

I remember during my last interview with you, I said I was yet to meet with the candidate of the Labour Party, Mr Peter Obi among his other friends who are contesting for president on other platforms. Luckily a few weeks after, he came to Kaduna and we met alongside his running mate, Dr Datti. We sat down in front of several other people and discussed his ideas on how to solve Nigeria’s problems. He was asked if he has been to Kaduna before and he said he has been attending Kaduna international trade fair in the past 10 years which means he is very conversant with Kaduna. He told us he is a businessman. From that conversation, we saw that he understands the problems of Nigeria which just confirmed what I’ve been saying all along that whatever happens, the next dispensation can form a kind of unitary government because I don’t see any of them that can be thrown away. Nigeria is too large for one man to manage which is why Buhari is finding it difficult to extend his hand to those who can influence his administration positively because he sees them as political opponents. But this time around, luckily, they are all friends. Don’t look at what they say in the media or what people are portraying. This is a good omen. Normally, what stops people in leadership positions from making progress is when there is internal friction. When there is sabotage. We are about to witness a repeat of 1966 though on a better footing. That is a situation where people in a contest understand one another, accommodate one another and so on. I’m very optimistic that things will be fine.

With what played out during the primary elections of these major political parties where delegates were rewarded ‘handsomely’, is there a possibility that contestants like Peter Obi may not have the financial muscle to flex with the likes of Atiku Abubakar and Bola Tinubu if the presidential election is monetised?

I don’t think so. I don’t think money will be spent on the election itself because the INEC will be using BVAS to identify credible voters while anti-graft agencies are expected to also be on the ground to check vote buying. However, money can come to the voters in terms of incentives. Coincidentally, Nigeria is polarised along religious, tribal and regional sentiments. Regional politics is coming back strongly more than at any other time. Even at that, I still see positive signs because if people vote along sentiment lines, we will still see a positive union whereby every segment of the country will feel belonging to a union. Each party has its strength and weakness in each region. This means a party with strong value will bring that to the table and see the area of partnership with ‘weak’ parties. There won’t be much agitations or feelings of marginalisation or rejection. What I cannot say is whether Peter Obi has been able to penetrate North seriously. Has Tinubu been able to do the same? Has Atiku been able to penetrate the South? Honestly, I don’t have an idea of their penetration across all divides, but I’m sure, we will see that after the elections.

Recently, Mr. President accused the state governments of not helping his administration’s drive on poverty reduction considering the statistics by the NBS that about 133 million Nigerians are experiencing multi-dimensional poverty. Do you agree with him on that?

That was why I said any leader that wants to succeed will work not to have internal friction. It has to be smooth here and there. As it is, there is over-dominance of one political party, that is, APC. They are holding everything and they can easily sabotage Mr. President and there is nothing he can do. But when we have what is about to happen whereby opposition can be involved in governance, especially at the state and local government levels, we may see working synergy. But I think he was correct when he said the governors have disappointed him because he didn’t do what he was supposed to do. He has been signing cheques in trillions, but little or nothing is on the ground and he is just realising that now, especially with the statistical figure on poverty. This was what we have been telling him when he was barricading people that would have told him the true positions of things on the ground. He only listens to his praise singers and this is the result. If he has been bringing those he thought were enemies close to hear from them, they could have told him and if he had known the fact since he could have taken steps to see that these monies go to the right targets. It is rather too late now and that should serve as a lesson to anyone coming as the next president that you don’t depend on governors and other political appointees. You need to have a system of accountability. A system of checks and balances to make sure the money meant for whatever purposes reach the target.

Again, another strong allegation from the presidency against Nigerian governors is that they have been hijacking monies meant for the development of grassroots and, of course, a few of these governors have denied touching monies meant for the local government …?

They may deny it, but the truth is that poverty has spread across the local governments. I want to believe that if the money meant for the local government has been judiciously spent on education, health and local infrastructure, definitely we would have seen the impacts on the socio-economic indices. But it is not. There is poverty in the land and the monies are not trickling down.

Relatively, is the payment of 13 per cent derivation to the Niger Delta states. The Rivers State governor, Nyesom Wike thanked President Buhari for partial payment of the accumulated monies in this regard which appeared not okay with his colleagues because their citizens are demanding accountability…?

Yes, building flyovers will not help people. How about funding the education and health needs of the people of the Niger Delta? How about developing agriculture and factories to improve productivity? It should not be about putting cement and iron together to build flyovers all over the city. That is not the kind of development and economy the vast majority of people want except absolutely necessary. Sixty-three per cent of Nigerians are in multi-dimensional poverty which is a huge failure. So, it is not enough to give the money. You need to follow up with all the responsible institutions like ICPC and EFCC to make sure the monies reach the target and are used for the purposes they were released. It is just unfortunate and I hope the next president would learn from this.

Talking about eradicating poverty, recently, the Kaduna State government through the Ministry of Human Services and Social Development partnered with UNICEF to assist about 3,000 out-of-school Almajarai as we know them. Steps like this are temporary. What can clerics like you do to address this holistically?

First, we need to understand that Almajarai is a cultural thing and until when you change the mindset of the people, the fire brigade approach will not solve the problem. Almajarai is an educational system that is outdated by modernity just like the use of donkeys and camels as means of transportation which have been overtaken by the modern transportation system. So, when you make the modern available, people will leave the old ones. Let me say that perhaps we still have villages where they still use donkeys and camels to move around. If you check, you will discover there are no good reads let alone good cars in such places. So, Almajarai is not just a school, but an educational system that is not well-financed. The boy after taking the morning lesson will go and beg for food because that food sustains him and pay a small fee to his mallam. So, we have to make education from primary to secondary and even tertiary a universal thing. Spend money on education rather than flyovers because insecurity is a tricycle of poverty, ignorance and injustice. So, selecting a few thousand out of millions of out-of-school children in Nigeria is just like a drop in the ocean of the problem we have. The development may encourage some Almajarai to begin to come to town to try their luck on scholarships and allowances. Let there be a policy where primary education will be absolutely free and put a sustainability plan in place. Like what Awolowo did in the old western region. I remember the slogan then was “free education” and this is just what we need because if you don’t educate people the problem will continue because one-third of the malady you see around is caused by ignorance and unemployment, which have direct correlation with education. If you don’t teach people the needed skills to work through education, how can they survive even if you give them a stipend every month. So, the government needs to have a rethink, reduce all these elephant projects and make resources available at the grassroots to make sure every Nigerian is educated.

But in Kaduna State, education is free from primary to secondary and we still have a lot of children roaming the street. Now that government of Kaduna State is saying education is free, what can the parents and guardians of these out-of-school children do to complement the government’s efforts in this regard?

How free is free education? A few weeks ago, I was invited to witness the celebration of one government secondary school in Badarawa. I was shocked to the bone when I realised that in the whole of about 18 classrooms, only two have chairs. Students in the rest of the classrooms sit on the floor. In fact, they write their external examinations sitting on the floor. This is a government school in the heart of Kaduna. As they say that the devil is in the details, offering free education without those things that will make learning a fun is a joke. Teachers are not well paid.

But, the Kaduna State government has well over 4,000 public schools some of which it has been renovating, rebuilding and furnishing. Don’t you think it will take a while for these to go round?

No. The money they are spending on other things should have been spent on education. Really, education is costly. It is not cheap. The commonwealth is not getting to that level. If a government secondary school inside Kaduna doesn’t have chairs, and teachers are not punctual because they are not well paid, what is the hope for children in remote towns and villages? So, all policies are on paper. They are not implemented.

Does that mean parents should not support the government’s efforts?

Well, parents are pinned down by poverty. People are thinking of what to eat. A lot of parents are hopeless and thereby at the mercy of whatever is available. Even when there is little or nothing to eat, if a member of the family is sick, the family will concentrate available resources on medication and treatment of the sick member. Again, the rich send their children to private schools, but the majority of Nigerians are poor and so their children have to attend poorly funded public schools. The next government must be serious. It should have no place for all these deceptions. Nigeria needs a government that can sit, think, stand and work the talk. Every Nigerian must be educated. They must get employed. They must be secured. And agriculture is a large area where the teeming population can be absorbed. As I said, justice is key. You cannot even get justice here if you are poor.

In Kaduna, we have well over 40 per cent of women representation in government. From what we have seen, women are better managers of available resources as appointees. What is your position on having more of them in elective offices?

To me, the problem is not about gender, it is about having people who can stand up, who can be vocal. Very few women are vocal and can stand up to defend the right course. Go and check them they go with the current. They hardly stand their ground against the current. Very few of them like Amina Gambo Sawaba and recently one Aisha Yesufu. We have to encourage women to be bold. Have you heard of any minister or commissioner that resigns on principle in Nigeria? Look at that UK Prime Minister who resigned just about 40 days after her emergence because she saw that she could not manage the UK economy. Nigerians want to see those that can stand out in this direction. We should learn to give way to those that can do the job because this is the only way we can progress.

Let’s talk about security during this electioneering period. What do we do to ensure campaigns are violence-free and people can confidently come out to vote next year?

There is a slight difference between campaign and voting. During voting, the crowd would be controllable because we have about 500 people per polling unit. There are also going to be movement restrictions. In a campaign, all manners of people – riffraff here and there thereby posing a security threat. Most of the people you see at campaign rallies are hired crowds who were there just to see if they can get something to eat because there is hunger in the land. All the political parties do that. There is no intellectual in the campaign. It is just to show the opponents how strong they are in an area. They go and shout. The silent voters are not in that crowd and any party that wants to win should reach out to them. I feel the election will be peaceful. I hope INEC will stand on its feet to ensure free and fair elections.

How confident are you that the INEC server back end will be safe from hackers manipulating the results?

With the use of BVAS and instantaneous transmission of election results from the polling units, any party that will allow itself to be rigged out in these coming elections is not even supposed to exist in the first place. If a party can be rigged out, it means such a party can be outsmarted in other areas which are not good for Nigeria. We want a smart and alert leader who will be alive to his responsibilities. A leader who will not allow our rights to be trampled upon. I hope and pray INEC will do its best to ensure the elections will be free, fair and credible. Nigerians should not fear. They should come out and vote. Those miscreants who do snatch ballot boxes should know their game is over because the election will be transmitted electronically in real time. Let me say this again that any party that cannot protect its vote cannot protect Nigeria’s interest.(Sunday Sun)

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