The Los Angeles City Council and musician Kanye West have dominated headlines for the past two weeks for the wrong reason -- racism.

Three members of the LA City Council and a top union leader were caught on a leaked audio tape from October 2021 making racist remarks about the Black, Hispanic and Indigenous communities.

Ron Herrera, head of the LA County Federation of Labor, resigned from his post, as did council president Nury Martinez.

Martinez criticized the Black son of white council member Mike Bonin, calling the boy “ese changuito,” which in Spanish means “that little monkey.”

She also called Indigenous immigrants from the Mexican state of Oaxaca “tan feos,” or “so ugly,” and referred to Oaxacans as “little, short dark people.”

Two other council members -- Kevin de Leon and Gil Cedillo -- were stripped of their committee seats but remain in their posts despite a public outcry for both men to resign.

“As upsetting as it is, I don't think that anyone is surprised by it, and maybe that is what's upsetting,” said Amos Guiora, Professor of Law at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

“Was I surprised? No," Guiora told Anadolu Agency by phone. “The tone and tenor of conversation in the US at the moment is such that racist verbiage or language has become part and parcel of the American dialogue at the moment.”

The four people who took part in the leaked conversation disparaged multiple races and ethnicities despite being minorities themselves.

Guiora said the racial or ethnic heritage of those spewing the hateful rhetoric does not matter.

“I think racism is not Group A against Group B”he said. “If ethnic Group A disparages Person B in the ethnicity, that is still racism.”

The social media platform Twitter locked rapper Kanye West’s account over an anti-Semitic tweet posted on Oct. 8.

In the since-removed tweet, West, who is now known as Ye, said he was “going death con 3 (sic) On JEWISH PEOPLE” and “You guys have toyed with me and tried to black ball anyone whoever opposes your agenda.”

“Kanye West is an important part of our conversations. I know nothing about him, but he's gone on these anti-Semitic rants,” said Guiora. "I'm Jewish. My parents are Holocaust survivors. And he goes on these vile rants -- with 31.5 million followers. That many people listening to his vile (rants). They're nodding their heads up and down in agreement.”

Guiora emphasized that West's anti-Semitic remarks are given validity not just through the acknowledgement of his millions of followers, but through praise from one of America's most visible leaders.

“When former President Donald Trump was asked about Kanye's anti-Semitic rant, he said 'he was great to me.' 'He was really high on a guy named Donald Trump,” added Guiora, referring to Trump's accolades regarding West.

“To legitimize that anti-Semitic vile(ness) is akin to the terrible statements made by the Los Angeles City Council members.”

Guiora said America has a choice when it comes to racism.

“Are we going to allow hate speech or vile speech to go unabated?” he said. “Or are we going to have the conversations about where are we going to draw the line on what's really free speech?”

He explained that the rapid dissemination of information makes it even more difficult to address topics like racism or stop a viral message before it spirals out of control.

“Social media because of the speed of which the speech goes viral and the dramatic impact it has at least requires that legislators reevaluate and ask the question: Was it free speech or hate speech?” said Guiora. "But to not have the discussion or shying away from the discussion is also dangerous.”

Guiora said evaluating hate speech as a possible threat or danger to society is also important to take into account.

“Whether it's the city council or Kanye West, can hate speech lead to violence? Or will it lead to violence? Those are the questions we must think about,” Guiora added.

“Sixty years ago, 70 years ago, an African American and a white guy couldn't' drink out of the same drinking fountain, and that's racism and that's horrible,” he continued. “Racism has a long and dark history in America. It is part of the American DNA.”

However, Guiora said it does not have to remain that way and America can turn the tables on hate.

“There's a lack of information about racism, but it begins with education and sensitivity towards other people who are different from you,” he said. “If people see something wrong, then people should say something (and) take a more aggressive approach to speak up against those hateful things.”

“When you see something or hear something hateful, say something about it because silence kills,” Guiora continued. “This cultural shift is not going to happen in the next three and half minutes metaphorically. It's a significant undertaking, it's a cultural shift and it's getting the change to happen.”

Guiora believes the way for that to take place is to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

“When white people ask if the situation of racism has improved, they need to ask African Americans, not white people,” he said. “I teach criminal procedure to my first-year students and tell them about DWB -- Driving While Black. There's no way a white student can understand that. They can understand it intellectually, but not practically.”

“I'm white. I don't think I have any understanding of racism faced by African Americans, so I'm not in a position to say if it's better or worse,” Guiora added. “Like when Kanye West goes on his anti-Semitic rant, my answer about racism is much different than someone who is not Jewish.”

Guiora said the bottom line is that people need to be intolerant of racism, which he admitted is easier said than done.

“When speaking up for what is right, there is a fear of being shamed, bullied or marginalized,” he said. "But I think that we need to be intolerant of Kanye West and the LA City Council.”

“Racism will likely be around forever, but because I'm an eternal optimist, I refuse to buy into that.” Guiora continued. “I'm not naive and I've been around the block, but I still believe there can be a world without racism.”

“I believe there is hope of ending racism. One hundred percent.” (Anadolu Agency)

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