Ichie Damian Okeke-Ogene is the Vice President of the pan-Igbo socio-cultural organization in Nigeria, Ohaneze Ndigbo Worldwide, which represents the interests of all Igbo communities within and outside Nigeria. In this interview with our Senior Correspondent, PAMELA EBOH, Okene-Ogene described President Mohammadu Buhari’s administration as a failure, saying that it has plunged the country into more corruption, division and insecurity.

He said that Ohanaeze Ndigbo still stands on the side of fairness which is the emergence of a President of Igbo extraction come 2023.

While saying that the Movement of the Presidential Candidate of the Labour Party (LP), Mr. Peter Obi, has gone beyond his (obi’s) control because of the younger generation's hunger for a new Nigeria, he warned that anybody planning to rig the 2023 presidential election will only be inviting chaos. Excerpts:

News Express: What is the stand of Ohaneze Ndiigbo with regard to 2023 presidential election. Are you for a president of Igbo extraction or open to whoever emerges?

Okene-Ogene: The stand of Ohanaeze Ndiigbo has never been changed. We are standing for a South Easterner to be the president of this country, Nigeria, and that's because we believe in fairness. It’s the turn of the south and in the south, it’s the South East.

Ohanaeze as a pan-Igbo organisation is expected to be the mouthpiece of the Southeast but that appears to be far-fetched. The governors in this zone always sing discordant tones when it comes to issues affecting the zone. What’s your take on that?

There are individuals and they have their one vote each. We, as a cultural organisation, we go with the people’s wish. We are very close to the people. We consider our actions based on their belief. We are no longer in the era of Nnamdi Azikiwe where you say, leave my state for me, I will deliver it, no; the days are gone. I, for example, I have four kids and I cannot determine who they will vote for because they are all matured. Their generation is being marginalused so they can’t continue to follow me in my own way. They have their own opinion.

Peter has become an unprecedented force, a movement embraced by many. Do you think this movement, like in the days of Pharoah and children of Israelites, will birth a new Nigeria cone 2023?

Peter Obi’s movement is not Ohanaeze movement, neither is it a Southeast movement. It’s a movement of new Nigeria. You can equate it with what happened in South Africa. What started revolution in America was when a black man was asked to stand up for a white man in the bus, riot broke out and it was led by Martin Luther King. After many years, a black man of Kenyan ancestry, Barrack Obama, became the President of America, that’s apart from a lot of blacks that have become senators and all that.

It has never happened until that revolution came. In South Africa, it took late Nelson Mandela 27 years to liberate South Africans from apartheid. So, Obi’s movement is a liberation movement. Like he said, he is not desperate to answer President; the movement is even beyond Peter's control. It’s just like a fully-loaded trailer descending on a hill, where it would land, you and I don’t know.

Are you positive this movement will turn out good?

I tell you, some people feel that their generation is being marginalised and they are capable of fighting for it and they are on it. If it’s not now, it will still eventually come because it’s a movement that is ordained.

A former Senator from Kogi State, Dino Melaye, recently came out to say Peter Obi has all it takes to be the president of Nigeria but that his time is not yet ripe but that of the PDP Presidential Candidate, Atiku Abubakar. What’s your take on that?

Every Nigerian knows Dino Melaye as a Nollywoid star. I never knew him as a prophet; though he's acting film and he is enjoying it. As far as I'm concerned, Dino Melaye cannot speak for Nigerians, he can only speak for his pocket and his fellow Nollywood actors. He is aspiring to be a Nollywood actor.

There are fears that the powers that be, the Fulanis, specifically, will not be open to handing over to Obi who is from the Southeast, even if he wins, rather they will prefer to go to war. Does that worry you?

I tell you, nobody is made of iron. Everybody is made of blood and there's no one that has cast his life on a stone. There is this illusion which makes people to think that the Fulanis as extra-ordinary human beings. Nobody is extra-ordinary; we are same flesh and blood. It’s a question of time. Change is always constant, so when change comes, it blows away even the toughest. So, leave Nigerians to decide what 2023 will turn out.

Ndigbo are known for speaking in discordant tunes, especially as it concerns the major stakeholders. Does that not worry you, bearing in mind that this trait seems to be the major spoiler for the Southeast?

That’s because we are republicans. But let me tell you, majority of these so-called stakeholders cannot even win ward election in their places if you go by option A4. It has happened before.

The thing is, when we elect them into positions of authority, they begin to see themselves as lords. Why they say, "Igbo enwe eze" is because those you thought are speaking for the Igbo renege when the chips are down. Go to villages and town meetings and family meetings, with all their monies and all, they don’t fit in. That’s actually how the Igbo know who their sons or daughter are.

Speaking on discordant tunes does not worry me because the focused Igbo always go for result. They know what they want. Igbo is naturally adventurous and anybody that ventures, if you don’t succeed in a particular business, you try another one. He who is down is one who fails and lie down, he who is up is on who fails and rise up.

Ohanaeze has been consistent on the need for Nigeria to be restructured because many have been marginalised, the South West, South South, South East, Niger Delta, and even the North. So, the voice of the voiceless is rising now and it has brought a lot of changes.

First of all, the new Nigeria revolution has binded all the churches together. Before now, the Pentecostals will say voting and participating in politics is a sin but now they say if you don’t have PVC, you don’t come into the church. The idea of Anglican versus Catholic is gradually going away because they have realised that this divide and rule is what has been holding them down. Now the idea of North versus South, some youths in the North have seen that for many years, Northerners have dominated the leadership of this country, both military and civilian rule, but they have not fared better than the Southeast nor the South.

Check the GDP of the South East, South South, South West and that of the North. Out-of-school children, drop out, unemployment, its more in the North. There's still reasonable ones in the North and you know, some of them never want their people to be educated. When former President Goodluck Jonathan started normadic school, they felt he was not doing well by trying to open the eyes of their people because these are the people they use, they hear only one thing: ‘go and kill "nyamiri (the believer, infidel) and they will go. But when they are educated, they will behave differently. The enlightened ones have even started saying now that there is no place in the Koran where Prophet Mohammed asked them to kill and they acknowledge that to kill is a sin. The bible says ‘thou shalt not kill.’

So, it is the thing their leaders feed them with. Even here, you can’t rule it out, some of the Pastors are using some things in the bible to do business. They read some portions of the bible and interpret it as they like, same way some Imams and big men over there do. They use these things to scare us away because we believe there's no need killing anybody. Remember what Jonathan said that no blood of a Nigerian is worth wasting for him to be the leader of this country.

Do you think there will ever be a time when Igbo will come together as a force to speak with one voice?

Definitely. My generation is gradually leaving, so we are believing the younger generation will put their acts together. And when you talk of Igbo unity, you don’t consider Igbo unity based on self-appointed Igbo leaders. Many of them are self- appointed leaders, either you are rich or you find yourself in a favourable position.

The genuine Igbo are the silent ones. I tell you, in this part of the world, after the war and early 80's, if you jam a rich man with your rickety car or motorcycle, it’s better for you to run away because other people will mob you for doing that. But today, if a big man jams a keke and he is not willing to buy a new one and makes noise, he would be lynched. You see the changes, because they believe that every wealthy man made his money fraudulently or stole government money, which is not true anyway.

There are genuine businessmen. There are a lot of Nigerian businessmen who made their money genuinely, like Peter Obi who never used or stole government money to be rich. Those ones are inside the communities, giving palliatives and building houses for people without making noise and they are not interested in any political office.

But these politicians, they always want to be the lord of everybody. They can instigate those they are building house for to attack you, they will say you are a ritualist. Why will I want to take the destiny of an Okada rider, do I want to be an Okada rider? This group of people are habitual merchandise and they will come and tell you they will deliver Igbo land for you, nobody born of a woman can deliver Igbo for anybody. It is only the collective will of the Igbo. Watch this coming election, especially if the votes count, many of them will be disappointed again.

Can you define an average Igbo man?

An average Igbo man is well exposed. He follows a trend. Each one of them always wait for train at the station, they don’t want train to wait for them. Those who think that they will see old order where you ask the plane to wait, that the big man is coming, we have passed that level. And this is no longer the time when you come to a community and one man is the Alpha and Omega. There's a lot of alpha and omega in every family now. If they don’t have money, they have well-educated people, courageous people who can challenge you, even with all your money. Any independent people may not get to where they are going in time; but they will surely get to where they are going. It’s a matter of time.

What do you think will happen if Peter Obi wins but is not handed over to?

Nigeria has had the Abiola experience. We call that one the old order. Peter won election in Anambra State with only few members in the House of Assembly. Yet he governed Anambra. In his second term, majority of the lawmakers followed him to his party to return to the House. We are talking about restructuring. If Peter wins the election or anybody rigs this election, the consequenes of such action should be better imagined.

Will you bring the army or interim government again? The international community always goes to sleep and keep one eye open when it concerns Nigeria, especially Britain. But what happened between Russia and Ukraine must have taught Britain a great lesson. I know, Britain never supported democracy the way they should. They are always on the side of those who help them to steal our oil, but what I’m trying to tell you is that the present regime, even in America, you can see voices springing up: the former US President, Obama and other notable world political heavy weights too. They are voices of democracy and every eye is watching to see how Peter and the new Nigeria will end.

INEC should also take a cue from what happened during Jonathan era. When he saw that polls were fraught with illegalities, he decided to bow out. I don’t see President Buhari being funny enough to set this country ablaze after institutionalising corruption. We are more corrupt, more divided than we have ever been. There's nothing much he can do to Nigeria than what he has already done in this his administration. So, are you thinking that anybody will want to rig this election with the electronic voting system?; it will be a disaster, not just to Nigeria, but Africa at large.

Security in Nigeria has become a far-fetched privilege, home is no longer a safe haven anymore. What do you think is the way out of this dead zone?

As far as I’m concerned, this present administration has no plans to secure Nigerians until it leaves office. You can’t travel anywhere without fear. Even to travel down to the airport at Umueri, you will be scared stiff due to fear of the unknown, how much more before when I used to consider the time it will take me to get to Enugu airport and I just simply join Tracas vehicle and before 3pm it’s in Abuja, between 12 and 1pm, it’s in Lagos. But now, look at how many ‘war fronts’ (checkpoints) you will pass. You will pass two to three war fronts in Anambra, getting to Delta, you pass a lot of war fronts, same with Edo, Ore, Shagamu, until you get inside Lagos. So, it is now a big risk to travel. The entire nation is not secure. Insecurity breeds a lot of ills, criminals, hunger, inflation. We are as good as not existing.

Anambra State, Prof Chukwuma Soludo clocked 100 days in office. How do you rate him?

Our problem is that we don’t have patience. Soludo has come in with a new system of government and for a new system to be installed; a lot of patience is needed. For many years, we have been following the same system and he wants to change it. When I watched his hundred days in office, I said to myself that if 70 per cent of his proposals can be implemented, definitely, that Dubai of Africa in Anambra will come.

He is consistent with whatever he said he will do, you can only say he is not moving fast. Now, for the past three months or so, March to May, he has not gotten any allocation. He had also stopped the Internally Generated Revenue to plan how best to collect it. He has lost a lot in this four months but he is trying to ensure that the bigger chunk of the revenue gets into the government purse rather than a situation where 70 per cent goes into individual pockets and the remaining 30 per cent to government coffers.

The good thing is that those who have been evading paying tax will pay, no matter how small. They will complain, but these are the same people who want good roads, pipe borne water, uninterrupted electricity; but they will not pay tax, rather they will be part of those who vandalize government properties.

So far, he has handled the security situation and I believe in the shortest time, the activities for which Anambra State is known will return, traditional marriages, new yam festivals, freedom of movement, other cultural events, life will go on and night life will also return.

If tax will help to bring all these basic necessities, including security, why not pay it, rather than pay N10 million, N20 million and above to kidnappers. You are not sure of your life immediately when you get out of your house; so, if he can give back our lives in one year in terms of security, it’s a huge step. He has a lot at stake with his name and what he stands for. As he said, if he can construct 220 kilometers of road within one year in office, say by March next year, it’s a lot.

You know we are interwoven in Anambra State, so if he can construct that in one year, in four years, we will be looking at more than one thousand kilometers of roads in the state, then the Dubai of Africa is fast at sight.

He has been consistent in saying that he is going to turn Okpoko around. If he opens up Okpoko and get more sakamori drainages and channel the water, not only drainages. You know, because of the topography of Anambra State, we are prone to erosion. We have more than one thousand erosion sites in the state but I think that with good drainages, flood movement can be diverted to streams and then they can move to River Niger and we will get out of the erosion bottleneck.

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